This is where one of the biggest struggles (at least for me) comes in. I’m gonna flesh this out and post what I  mean as soon as possible. Stay tuned….

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21 Comments on If the GB do not have Jehovah’s Holy Spirit What Would That Mean?

  1. Lester Kite says:

    it’s a question I often asked elders when I was close to fading from The WTS and one that never got a satisfactory response.


  2. Lester Kite says:

    one particular elder and my father included stated that without any shadow of doubt that everything that the GB did/does was blessed by the Holy Spirit, well let me set a scenario former deceased GB members Leo Greenleas and Ewart Chitty served for many decades as GB members at it’s inception in the 70’s and as Board of Directors previously but were removed from their posts for homosexuality Greenleas had a particular preference for teen age boys sodomizing and abusing in his very own room in Bethel his victim even wrote in graphic detail on JWN of his abuse at the hands of this deviant, goodness alone knows what Chitty ever got up to, yet these 2 vile perverts were not even as much as disfellowshipped they were just moved to a cushy posting in the UK Bethel til their deaths probably continuing in their sickening lust til their then. Now the Rank and File know nothing about this scandal and if you related the story with Dubs today you would probably be greeted with the response that it is just apostate lies, yet the fundamental question is would God bless and shine the Holy Spirit on a body of men who amongst it ranks had such evil doers in them? there were similar rumours about the sexual deviancy of president Nathan Knorr and Freddie Franz who himself frequented homosexual saunas in the New York area with his group Bethel boys. Scandals like this no longer surprise me about The WTS yet when similar scandals are exposed by The WTS on the “churches of Christendom” it makes WTS publications yet such is their undeniable hypocrisy they refuse to address these type of scandals that affect them, I wonder why?


    • JJ says:

      Verifiable information on Chitty and Greenlees is slim. However, there is definitely enough circumstantial and multiple testimonies to the fact that both were homosexuals. As for actual practices/incidents, a believable interview was conducted and is on YouTube with a man that claims he was molested by Leo Greenlees. I listened to it and along with several web stories from different people it matches up with a lot of other info I have heard. It does appear that some of these accusations are true and I believe personally that these two were gay men. There is a report that a NY Witness couple went to Bethel and confronted a GB member they knew because their young son claimed to have been abused by Greenlees. This realization had a huge impact on me when I first discovered it. Even though men are imperfect, the fact that they served on the GB indicates to me that Jehovah’s spirit is not upon this group, at least not in the modern era of our generation.


  3. Amos says:

    I know of a case in Queensland Australia, where a single pioneer elder, was having an affir with at least two married sisters, WHILE IN THE FIELD MINISTRY.

    When this matter was reported to the body of elders by the sister who eye witnessed it happening, ALL those involved denied it. The sister lost her pioneering role as her punishment for reporting WHAT SHE SAW!

    There is a twist to this though, the guilty elder was moved to the other side of the country a few months later. The other thing is that the local CO was his best friend. Prior to this happening, he ried to seduce a 16YO sister, I know this is true, as her mother gave me a letter from him to her. This was also hushed up.

    Reminds me of the papacy’s treatment of their misbehaving priests.



  4. Anonymous says:

    JJ; testimonies from Bethelites during the 1980’s and from Barbara Anderson and Randall Watters can confirm the homosexual scandals that afflicted the headquarters during this era, was there not a KM article that spoke of wrongdoing from even GB members?


    • JJ says:

      No article ever mentions wrongdoing of GB members that I know of. There were two announcements re: Chitty and Ray Franz:

      *** km 8/80 p. 2 Announcements ***
      This is a notification that Raymond Victor Franz is no longer a member of the Governing Body and of the Brooklyn Bethel family as of May 22, 1980

      *** yb80 p. 258 Theocratic Instrumentalities *** In the past year Ewart C. Chitty resigned, so that at present there are 17 members of this body.

      I could not find anything mentioning Greenlees resignation in the WT Library. It would have been around 1984 that he left. As for other testimonies, I’ve read several of these and unfortunately most of them are entirely hearsay, given by people that have the proverbial “axe to grind”. Does that completely invalidate the accounts? Not necessarily…It ultimately comes down to what we personally believe. I want to be sure- positive and definite about it, like a skeptical lawyer that persists in saying “Innocent until proven guilty”.


      • Amos says:

        I also believe that this is the correct way….”Innocent until proven guilty”.
        There has been too much heresay (without hard evidence) that has convicted too many of the brethren in the past.



  5. Disappointed says:

    I always feel that Jehovah uses any means there is to continue his purpose but Satan tries everything he can to thwart that purpose to no avail. Jehovah has used unbelievers like Cyrus to release his people and rebuild Jerusalem. The Israelite nation that eventually became apostate to be the nation that produced the Messiah.He has even used even the lawless if in a position of authority and able to make a difference. The King James of England/Scotland in the 17thC who authorised the KJV bible was a practising homosexual. Henry VIII of England in the 16thC who broke away from the Catholic Church and allowed his 2nd wife Anne Boleyn to openly read her personal copy of the Tyndale bible. Henry VIII was a serial womaniser and murderer. In the same way I see the Organisation being used to spread God’s word in some way.I also think of the words of Gamaliel in Acts 5:34-39. Jehovah will see to it that things are done according to his purpose. Nothing can thwart that purpose.


  6. Ruth says:

    I don’t know if this helps or you have ever thought from a different point of view but they way it comes across to me is that our father does not use liers in his name to spread his word. ( Satanic)
    Actually all the churches and organizations have done more damage to the truth of the real simple gospel of Jesus. They are in fact spreading false gospels.

    The J/ws have out rightly proclaimed they were a prophet!
    They have now denied this proclamation but the archives of history will prove once again they are telling more lies.

    Watchtower claims Jehovah’s Witnesses as the Prophet of God
    Watchtower 4/1/72, pages 197-198
    “They shall know that a Prophet was among them.”

    Now that is in contrast to Deuteronomy 18:19-22
    Because there declarations over the past decades have been false
    Jehovah says he never commanded them to speak at all.
    Neither did he send them. Because if a prophet speaks in Gods name and it does not come to pass he says he definitely never sent them nor does he need them. Even saying they spoke presumptuously.

    Looks to me. I’m sure the brothers will add more to this.
    But in the book of 1John 2:27 says we do not need anyone to teach us except the anointing from God and it is no lie! Luke 12:12
    the Holy Spirit teaches us as individuals. ( not any church or organization.)Especially now.

    We are living in a time which the fathers Holy spirit is in real action. He does not anyone to spread the message if he does not want to. But yes he uses the sheep. The real sheep will bring forth the real message. I believe they are being lead to Jesus himself. Into a wilderness so he can teach them one on one. He is collecting them right now. Putting them in his personal pen.

    When I was delivered from the W/tower The Holy spirit has and still is teaching me so much. Others will say the same thing. Some of us are isolated! No one around us to bring any message. But! we are being taught I can assure you. Jesus says he will knock on our doors. Doors to our mental powers and hearts.

    But I do agree with you that he has used Kings and nations to bend things his way. Even using the catholic church to get the 66books we now call the

    But for the good news! I do not believe he needs us at all.
    yet we do preach to just about everyone we can find. We tell them It is all about Jesus now and listening to him. He says learn from me. I will show you even greater things than these.

    Just a thought from me dear Disappointed.
    Your sister Ruth.


    • Amos says:

      Quite right Sister Ruth, I agree with your comments.

      It is only by the Holy Spirit teaching us individually, then each one sharing what they’ve been taught, that we come to know the “real truth”.

      I have become aware of the fact also, that sometimes we can be taught by “non-believers”…..if we are aware of what is going on around us, we can then realize that something someone says can prompt “our spirit” to SEE (by means of the HS) some very important point that has been on our mind & heart. This has repeatedly happened to myself.


  7. Ruth says:

    Thanks that is very interesting. Yes I know what you are talking about. True, we have to be aware of every circumstance the Holy spirit places before us. John 16-13
    Yes I do believe he can use anyone. I would just like to add more to that if you don’t mind.
    Sword sharpens sword.

    Quote Amos.
    I have become aware of the fact also, that sometimes we can be taught by “non-believers”…..if we are aware of what is going on around us, we can then realize that something someone says can prompt “our spirit” to SEE (by means of the HS) some very important point that has been on our mind & heart.
    I walk on the side of caution here. We must be more aware with scrutiny of what is going on around us I believe.
    For instance.

    You see Amos l personally have had to test my behavior pattern sometimes and have come to the conclusion that the answers are in the way we behave as true Christians whether the spirit can have contact with us or not. .
    God does not bless unrighteous people. We can dedicate our life to God yet still be unrighteous.

    Following our Lord is to have a mental change of attitude.
    To receive his spirit we truly must be in tune with his spirit.
    1John 4-4

    Yes! we all would have to be very cautious of the angle of darkness pretending to be a spirit of light when listening to worldly people or anyone really getting silent advice

    Just as an illustration
    “Some Christian friends also can just plain manipulate any situation to get there own way in our lives. Not wanting to let go of a person perhaps. For Pure Selfish reasons no doubt.

    They can hold a person back from the prompting of the holy spirit Just by smooth talk.

    If we do not listen with out spiritual investigation we are “NOT TRUSTING OUR FATHER WHEN HE OPEN DOORS FOR US.” EVENTUALLY
    He will stop sending blessings our way. We must go look and see for ourselves.

    The only way I can see getting the right answers prompted by the holy spirit would be if we have the protection and real undersatnding from God!
    Exactly how would we know we had that?

    I do believe we truly have to be very righteous and humble people before we can accept or deny any spirit. Then we have to test the spirit.
    If we must know we are doing everything the Lord expects of us, of cause then we will recognize when the real spirit is prompting us.
    We know who we are on the inside. We can fool man but not God.
    Proverbs 12:15
    But! For the untrained eye so to speak, or wanting to do things our own way! perhaps half hearted in our love for the father, “then” we could be in danger of getting the wrong message by a prompt.
    Would you agree with that Brother Amos?
    Please add more.

    Ephesians 6:14-18
    Loins girded with truth. Breastplate of righteousness. Shield of faith. Feet shod with good news.
    Helmet of salvation. Having the sword of the spirit.

    But not only that!
    We would have to know without any doubt that we are the sons and daughters of God.
    Accepting that the holy father has sent the spirit of his son into our hearts and we can freely cry out Abba father. Galatians 4-3
    Asking ourselves out of caution. ( Using Gods tools)
    What do we really have in common with an unbeliever as we are the living temple of God.
    We are told not to touch anything that is unclean. Study of cause with these people. But bad association spoil useful habits. “Another one of gods tools”
    We either listen or do things our own way.

    Yes Brother Amos you are so right.
    We would certainly have to be aware of the surrounding of any circumstance. ALSO BE AWARE OF A FALSE SPIRIT TRYING TO TRICK US.

    One lady I meet regularly always says the Lord told me this the Lord told me that. Well I know it is not true as she does not listen when the bible speaks to her!

    On the other hand if we know we are right in Gods eyes I am sure the message will be plain to our heart.
    Sister Ruth.


  8. Ruth says:

    Amos please let me correct my mistake.

    I said:If we do not listen with out spiritual investigation we are “NOT TRUSTING OUR FATHER WHEN HE OPEN DOORS FOR US.” EVENTUALLY
    He will stop sending blessings our way. We must go look and see for ourselves.

    I should have said “if we listen without spiritual investigation.
    My thoughts only. perhaps they are quite insufficient really.


  9. Amos says:

    Sister Ruth,

    Thank’s for your replies to my post.

    Perhaps I worded that part of my post incorrectly. I didn’t mean that we should listen to & take counsel from non-believers, what I did mean was that we can, “by observation”, learn some truth….that is, we can piece together or fit into place, something in our own mind (that we have been considering). Or it may have been an event that we have eye-witnessed or became aware of, perhaps on the TV.

    The non-believer would be oblivious/unaware of this happening, as would satan. Satan cannot read our mind, so the only way that he can know what we are thinking, is for us to speak out aloud, or by our unspoken body language, or actions.

    I’m sorry if this did not come across as I originally intended it to.



  10. Ruth says:

    Amos thanks for clearing that up.
    I agree with what you have written also.
    Please do not think the post was pointing the finger.
    It is a good topic though. Us Christians need to use Gods tools much more than we do. It is not an easy journey to become whole souled. But well worth the effort.
    As I have been placed in a real spiritual wilderness the Lord is showing me so much.
    Your sister Ruth.


  11. The Glade says:

    its funny how you guys have such a shallow perspective. Think broad .Let’s say we agree that some members of Governing Body were homosexuals, but don’t you think the fact that they were expelled tells you something about the remaining members? Let’s say the GB is wrong well that would be bad! but most bible teachings taught by them have proved to be true. Tell me which other organisation has such a high standard of morality .If this is all faking their faking is helping people #whats wrong with that?# No other organisation knows the bible like Jehovah’s witnesses or made an effort to explain and distribute it. Now if The GB is faking and theie teachings are false that means the bible is wrong! Open your eyes guyz .You have beefs with The GB and appointed individuals that why you look at this in one perspective.FOCUS ON EXAMINING IF THESE GB GUYZ TEACH ACCURATE BIBLE TRUTHS. IF THEY ARE NOT, THEN JWS ARE WRONG AND IF JWS ARE WRONG THEN WHICH ORGANIZATION IS CORRECT? ….thinking that Jehovah deals with individuals and not an organisation is wrong.READ THE BIBLE AND STOP UNEDUCATED ARGUMENTS AND BEEFS .


  12. JimmyG says:


    How about this- after teaching for nearly 70 years that the ‘faithful and discreet slave’ is the remnant of 144,000 on earth and the gb merely represent that ‘slave’, this is what was written in the Watchtower in 2013:
    “Who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave? In keeping with Jesus’ pattern of feeding many through the hands of a few, that slave is made up of a small group of anointed brothers who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritual food during Christ’s presence. Throughout the last days, the anointed brothers who make up the faithful slave have served together at headquarters. In recent decades, that slave has been closely identified with the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses.” w13 7/15 p22 paragraph 10.

    Can you, The Glade, provide the specific scriptural foundation for either of these 2 definitions of the gb? As you wrote, ‘focus on examining if these gb guyz teach accurate bible truths’, a good place to start is the supposed scriptural foundation of this teaching. By the way, not one scripture was used in the above quote appearing in this Watchtower article to support the statement made.

    You have the floor, The Glade, and I look forward to your response.


  13. Frank says:

    When you say that the GB teaches a ‘high standard of morality,’ in order to get past the mundane but highly valued of innate morality that can be practised by theists and atheists alike, we would have to consider the religious policy that requires believing family members to fulfil 2 Timothy 3: 1-5 in which there will be ‘no natural affection’for family members who do not conform to all official teachings of the WTBTS.

    Then there is the policy that requires ‘two witnesses’ to the rape of children BEFORE any congregational action can be taken against a JW sex offender.

    Morality can be superficial, as many who have moved on have found out. “Love bombing” doesn’t count if the only motive is to make more disciples of the GB.

    Glade, if your moral argument is that because the GB teaches some good things, then why does it matter if one is a JW or not?

    Mark 3:4 has Jesus asking whether it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. If Jesus was proving that good can be done lawfully, then why was the old man of Numbers executed for picking up sticks on the Sabbath?



  14. JimmyG says:

    “The person who is certain and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”- Christopher Hitchens, ‘God is not Great’.

    How well this applies to the men on the WT’s governing body.


  15. Frank says:

    Hitchens also reminds us that religion (man-made attempts to organise ‘faith’)is a mind-forged manacle.

    Placing ourselves under the authority of humans without the ability to reason objectively equals present problems who attempt to try this.


  16. Rupunzelsawake says:

    Hi Jimmy, Frank and The Glade!
    I noticed recently that the entry under “Faithful and Discreet slave” in Insight Volume 1 has been changed in the on-line library available at I expect this is so JWs can’t see how the notion of a FDS “class” was fabricated to fit in with WT doctrine and their need for a “visible organisation” as apart from the organisations of Christendom. Under the new entry there is no mention of the “evil slave” and his punishment either. (The new wording seems to be from the pages of the July 15th 2013 Watchtower magazine.) At the 2014 AGM Anthony Morris said in a rather scornful tone, “There is no wicked slave CLASS that has arisen in these last days”. I would suggest there is no faithful and discreet slave CLASS either, only individuals. The old entry in the Insight Volume proves that there is nothing to prevent us from now viewing the parable about the faithful and wise slave, and the evil slave, as simply referring to individuals, and not as a basis for a group, or a class.
    At the 2014 Regional Convention there was a talk given regarding “the thrones of the 144,000”. The brother spoke of GB members who have died “faithful” and who have gone to heaven. Now I wonder, were they being judged as individuals, or as part of the “faithful and discreet” composite slave. It couldn’t have been the latter because the FDS has not been rewarded by Jesus yet. However, if the FDS do NOT hear “Well done you faithful slave”, when Jesus comes at the GT, will those former members who have died already, and are supposedly in heaven, be in any way accountable? Well, they can’t be if they have already received their heavenly reward. Those who have supposedly gone to heaven, what are they doing there? Their shared reign of 1000 years has not started yet. In that case, could they really be in heaven? Doubtful. The GB behave as if they are already Kings and priests here on earth. Mmmm…perhaps we will see “new light” on this……they really seem to be quite confused. In the past it was taught that the thousand year reign had begun, but they changed that. Despite that, the GB consistently apply Isaiah 60 to the organisation TODAY whereas their cross references take you to Revelation 21 and 22 regarding the “New Jerusalem”, which is FUTURE. Do they think they are exercising authority as the New Jerusalem already? How presumptuous that would be.
    During the December 2014 JW broadcast programme, Stephen Lett gave a talk about avoiding being over confident, and taking “unauthorised liberty”. He stated that nobody is immune to over confidence. He quoted a scripture saying, “The wise one is cautious… the stupid one is over confident”. I believe he also mentioned “pride comes before a crash”. I wonder if the GB ever apply these words to themselves. Their over confidence exudes from the pages of the July 15th 2013 WT. Basically they were saying that they can’t fail, (after all they have eradicated all their rivals, saying they are rejected as weeds). They minimise Jesus’ warning regarding the “evil slave” as being hypothetical only. The WT reads, “When Jesus comes to destroy the wicked during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally giving out spiritual food at the right time to the domestics. Jesus will then be happy to appoint that slave over all his belongings…” (pg 25 par 18) What confidence they have in themselves. In the box on page 24 it states, “But the faithful and discreet slave as a group has continued to stay alert and to give out spiritual food of good quality”. For decades the GB had exercised “unauthorised liberty” in asserting that they had been given charge over all of “the Master’s belongings”. Now they say that is yet future. They are still assuming authority they don’t possess , but have to be more creative in justifying and explaining it! (eg. “in the pattern of Jesus feeding the multitudes through the hands of the few” How lame is that!!) Oh well, that’s enough of a rant on my favourite subject!


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