More and more JWs are starting to be faced with a difficult decision. They have found out about or suspect the falsehood of a number of doctrines that the Society claims are “salvation issues”. Some may think “where else would I go?” Really, to gain Christ’s approval there is not a place or an organization or church we need to go to. As Peter said in JN 6:68 “Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom (not where) shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life”.

It is not a place or an organization we go to, or an “ark of salvation”. We must turn to our Lord and Savior Jesus. Some on learning this feel the desire to move on. They may form a home church with other sincere Christians. Some perhaps feel more comfortable in a traditional church. Others perhaps decide to stay with the Watchtower organization. Perhaps they want to help loved ones to leave before they themselves leave, or perhaps they believe that they will be better off spiritually if they stay. This is their decision and should not be criticized. Personally, I feel the need to eventually leave so as to continue my spiritual growth which would be difficult in an organization as authoritative as the JW organization. Others may feel differently.

What can we do to strengthen our relationship with God, maintain a clean conscience, and prepare ourselves for other difficulties if we decide to stay, whether it be temporary or permanently? I have a few suggestions.

  • Make bible reading a priority. The organization inundates the publishers with so many publications and assignments to prepare for the meetings that often bible reading suffers. Limit your reading of publications so as to have more time to read the bible itself. During family worship night make bible reading the main thing you do. Use different translations. A Greek interlinear is also very handy.
  • In field service use literature as less as possible. I believe this is a good suggestion even if you believe most doctrine taught by the JWs. Use the bible more and keep the message simple. Point people to Jesus and not to the organization. If your doctrinal convictions differ widely from the Society’s (as mine do) don’t use the Teach book during bible studies. Use just the bible or avoid bible studies altogether keeping spiritual-minded people as RVs.
  • Some no longer report hours spent in the field ministry (Matt. 6:1-4). If you decide to report, I would suggest don’t keep track of hours or return visits during the month, just report a near average (around 10 hrs.) for your cong, varying it enough each month so as to avoid suspicion. Do not pioneer (even when the hour requirement is lowered to 30 hrs). If you desire to increase your field service one month, do so but do not sign up to receive special recognition as a pioneer.
  • Examine yourself and start to purge yourself of undesirable and/or unspiritual qualities that are common for witnesses as a result of being in the organization, such as:  being judgmental of others or of oneself, unremitting guilt for not doing enough, a possible lack of charity, suspicion of all people that are not JWs, a sectarian spirit, etc.
  • If you have privileges of service or responsibilities start preparing reasons so as to step down as soon as possible.
  • You probably do not want to be DFed but don’t make avoidance of disfellowshipping a top priority. Instead start strengthening your resolve to overcome opposition from elders or believing family members. Some have used with success calming and stress-reduction techniques.
  • Start thinking of how you will react if you are found out and DFed. Will you prepare a letter that explains some of your views and why you are being DFed so that you can distribute it to the friends during the week before you are disfellowshipped? (The organization requires that a full week pass between the decision to disfellowship is made and the announcement is made to the congregation. If you appeal within that week you may have even more time.) If you decide a letter would be the way to go, you may want to start to prepare it today.
  • Decide if you are going to try to “awaken” others. If so, who? and how?
  • “…prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves.” (Matt. 10:16)
  • Seek encouragement from those who are like-minded. Perhaps on-line.
  • And above all, make prayer a priority.

Does anybody else have suggestions?

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61 Comments on If the Decision Is to Stay

  1. greybeard says:

    Hi Andrew,

    You said, “just report a near average (around 10 hrs.)” In my opinion this would be a invitation for the elders to give you “privileges”. I believe not turning in time is best however if you do, make it a low number like 2 hrs or so to avoid being given “privileges” unless that is what you want. I would think not turning in time and remaining on the “inactive” list helps one avoid the elders radar. That’s only my opinion.

    Your brother,
    Greybeard

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  2. DanielB says:

    Some of the best christians I knew among Jehovah’s Witnesses were lax on turning in reports on their time, though they would talk truth and set a good example, the best they knew how, in their world.

    What we run into as men, who would like to have public audience and to teach and encourage, is the need to comply with 10 or near-10 hours to report for awhile, before we are given a tongue.

    Personally, I came to prefer speak one – on – one better. That way, good listening would help in being spiritually productive too. Plus, I had a sense for awhile that Jehovah was moving me and expecting me to go onward from their dilemnas.

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  3. andrew says:

    I appreciate your comments brothers, I feel giving a near average report keeps you out of the elder’s radar. If you report a real low average you are asking for a shepherding visit. It is true though if you have privileges that you want to drop, reporting a low average will help you do that. So I guess it depends in what circumstances you are in.
    Personally, since now I have no “privileges” I report around 10 hrs. every month. Since the local elders are aware of how I feel about certain things it is doubtful they would offer me responsibilities, which suits me just fine.

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    • greybeard says:

      I see where you are coming from. Most of my congregations didn’t make many shepherding calls and when they did, I was good at avoiding them. Anyway… I am now I should say… I just don’t answer the door or return the call.

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    • DanielB says:

      Is there still the office titles of the early 90s for the elder body? P.O.? Secretary? WT Overseer? TMS Overseer? BS Overseer, (I especially like the look of that one in printed form) :)

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      • andrew says:

        The P.O. is called Coordinator of the Body of Elders.

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        • DanielB says:

          I have heard that there is no more CBS midweek. It seems you call family bible study, family worship night. Is that organizational? I suppose “Presiding” was a bit over-empowering.

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          • andrew says:

            Sunday meeting is basically unchanged, except public talks are now 30 min. instead of 45 min.
            Now there is only one evening a week that JWs have meetings. First the congregation bible study (the old book study) which lasts 25 min., then the theocratic ministry school which lasts 30 min., and finally the service meeting which lasts 35 min.
            The change for P.O. was a change in name only. Its pretty much the same job.

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  4. Jayme says:

    Thanks, Andrew, for sharing these inciteful considerations. Listing these points in a logical outline helps put things in order mentally and provides a basic framework for progress.

    Nearly all of the bro/sis I have spoken to who either DA’d or got DF’d very soon after their “awakening” said they wished they had taken things slower and remained in, either to prepare for a smoother transition out or to remain to help their family. Many also mentioned the overwhelming turmoil DA/DF brings in on you and your JW family members. This is important to consider. We have spoken alot about showing love to others recently, and I think it is important to consider it again in regard to leaving or staying. Is it worth causing this suffering? Is it loving to do so? Can we find another way to avoid this delima and still hold a clean conscience? Can we help and upbuild our family and friends better if we stay, even if this means we may be uncomfortable? Each of us can only answer these questions personally.

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  5. DanielB says:

    Checking this out can help.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.ne.....-Authentic

    It can help with acceptable transitioning.

    Good health to you.

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  6. LonelySheep says:

    Andrew, spot on.

    All of your suggestions hit the nail on the head.

    Over the years, I have without conscious thought done what you have suggested without even realising it.

    The report thing was tragic. About 5 years ago, I took myself of the school. You would thought this would have raised alarm bells with the elders. Not a thing. But when I didn’t hand in my report, well they wouldn’t let up pestering me for it. Any case, we had the Field Service Overseer at the group and as usual he had report cards for everybody, to review their own. He couldn’t find one for me. Must be because I haven’t reported for so long. So officially I guess I don’t even belong to a congregation. Yippeeeee!!!!

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    • greybeard says:

      LonelySheep,

      Your not being in the school does not reflect on them. Your not turning in time and becoming inactive reflects on all of them in their view.

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  7. DanielB says:

    It would be nice if talks and studies could be put together without the stringent conformity. Then remaining among the congregation and being active would have more blessings without compromising things taught. Personally, I was getting so burnt out on the comments by wrote all around me. There are only so many new inflections to say the same basic thing over again. Public talks were usually not public much, as for new ones. So I know that staying can be difficult. But we also understand that when asked, “Who shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life”, that it was Jesus who was spoken to, and not an earthly organization.

    I feel for you. And I also look back with sadness at times, over family in particular. But I have always made sure that they know I love them and that they are welcome anytime, with anything possible. I feel sad for them. In effect, they are restricted from me. And I have liberty. Christian liberty.

    It’s all in the hands of Christ.
    Thank Jehovah for that.

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    • DanielB says:

      I meant to add that “public talks” were presented as though most all there were new, but very few were. That stopped making sense long ago. Getting a large family ready and going could have payed off better with the time invested. But I never was the kind of go-along thinker so much that the presentations are designed for. I would like things new also, and not just yesterday’s leftovers again. Sorry if this sounds offensive; just my impressions.

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  8. Simpleman says:

    Strange you should say about writing a letter. I started writing one back in 2007 in the event I were to get DF. The letter though got out of hand, at least the word count did. I set out to write a few pages and at the halfway point I was up to 10,000 words and still had plenty to say, at least another 8-9000 words should cover it I thought. In actual fact its not a badly written letter, and it gets to the root of some of the issues Witnesses rarely think about or consider.

    I go back it it now and then but its been sitting on my desktop for the last two years, perhaps this post could act as a reminder to dust it off and narrow it down to about 3000 words, not sure what I going to chop out and what I will do about the stuff I haven’t written yet that needs to go in.

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  9. Dennis says:

    Good article Andrew. I have a question though. You said;

    “In field service use literature as less as possible. I believe this is a good suggestion even if you believe most doctrine taught by the JWs. (I agree with this too and would go one further, use bible translations other than the NWT) Use the bible more and keep the message simple. Point people to Jesus and not to the organization. If your doctrinal convictions differ widely from the Society’s (as mine do) don’t use the Teach book during bible studies. Use just the bible or avoid bible studies altogether keeping spiritual-minded people as RVs.”

    How can you stay in, go out in field service and not point people to the organization, as this is what field service (from a JW prospective) is all about? Would you form a private bible study group? If someone is hungry for spiritual things, would just doing return visits be enough to satisfy that hunger? Wouldn’t some type of personnel or group bible study be in order? What about baptism? Would one progress towards baptism into the body of Christ. Is there any other valid baptism today? How would you handle the heavenly hope vs the blessings to come to the world of mankind in general in the millennium? How long could you work with other JW’s in service before your belief’s become known?

    Wow, this scenario sure raise a lot of questions!

    Your brother,
    Dennis

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    • andrew says:

      I guess it would be necessary for each person to make these decisions. In the door to door work many times I talk about Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount. If other publishers are with me that theme doesn’t raise eyebrows. If you truly want to get into more detail with RVs, you pretty much have to do it alone.

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      • DanielB says:

        Simpleman asks a good question here. I will engage in conversation on the kingdom with individuals, and few have clear awareness of how the kingdom is. Seventh Day Adventists do, and some others, however they will have misconceptions over sequences of prophesy unfolding, and it appears nearly all do. Here again, it’s a problem with deciding such things on hunches.

        Many feel that Christ’s Kingdom only comes to live in hearts, which is not what Scripture says.

        I just go ahead and explain and share as I have come to know. It is though, as Paul had said, that even if there are those preaching wrong contentions, at least the Kingdom is being heard. Perhaps this will go on. Perhaps teachings will adjust.

        One thing to consider is that people are taking note as time goes on. There are days to live through as they were in Noah’s day, and many will not take note. The message of Christ’s Kingdom does have to be preached. And if I do it like even a dumb “rock”, it WILL get done! (Lu 19.40)

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        • DanielB says:

          Another thing to consider is that householders are apt to make the objection to a witness that “you people think that you are the only ones to enter God’s Kingdom”. But that is easy enough for someone in the organization to get past with the stock reply, without compromising truth, “No; we know others will hear the message and put faith in God and be saved”. The point is here, that I can see how one can remain as a JW, and still preach the kingdom. I would like hearing from Andrew too on it.

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          • DanielB says:

            I just had to add a bit here too:

            First, I had inserted these comments above Simpleman’s in error, so his message which came first, is below this one, and is meant to be read first.

            Secondly, the perimeno site is a good one, which Simpleman cites below. This is a quote on the subject, which I would confirm as being so:

            Jesus commissioned us, not only to preach the good news of the kingdom, but also to “go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matt. 28:19,20; NLT)

            If a man stays a witness for awhile longer, he could keep doing these things, depending on conscience. Personally, I would rather not be that associated with their reputation. I reach hearts better it seems as a scattered escapee.

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          • andrew says:

            Daniel
            I think it would depend on the circumstances. If I am with another publisher I must guard more what I say. If I am alone and a householder says something like “You JWs believe this…”. I have said on occasion “Well although I am a JW I disagree with my religion on certain things” The householder is usually satisfied with the answer. If I am with another publisher I will defer the question to them.

            It is harder when a JW asks you questions on how to overcome certain teachings. For example a young pioneer asked my recently about a RV he has with a man who believes in the visible return of Jesus. This pioneer asked me how could he show from the bible that it is invisible. This question was difficult since I agree with the householder that Jesus return will be visible. I simply said it is often better to be humble and admit we don’t know everything instead of insisting on our own understanding. He seemed to be satisfied with the answer and it is an answer that won’t get me in trouble with the organization.

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  10. Simpleman says:

    This was a question put to perimeno some years back:

    You say we need to be preaching the Good News now before the GT (Matt 24:14) – I’d like to ask if a JW has the full realization that 1914 and all the paraphernalia that surround it is incorrect what does he preach?

    If one was to preach and attain a bible study, how are you meant to teach the recommended publications for baptism when those books contain all the 1914 stuff?

    Can a Christian in good conscience teach a wrong – for a bible student to get baptized it requires the individual accept the presence of Christ started in 1914. You would be the one responsible for teaching it in the full knowledge it was a falsehood.

    I appreciate one can speak of Jehovah and his qualities – but to become a JW you have to accept and teach to whole package.

    So I ask you what do you preach to make a disciple.

    Reply: http://perimeno.ca/Letters_100.....preach.htm

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    • greybeard says:

      Hi Simpleman,

      I read the article. Permeno makes some very good points. I do believe the GB is apart of the man of lawlessness however… are they the only lawless “christian” leaders? I think not. He also makes the statement that JW’s are “Gods household”. I looked on his site but couldn’t find how he came to this conclusion. Do you know? When did JW’s become “Gods household” to the exclusion of all other professed to be Christians? Did that happen in 1914? 1918? OR when Rutherford changed their name to Jehovah’s Witnesses?

      Your brother,
      Greybeard

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  11. greybeard says:

    Speaking for myself, ever sense I found out JW’s were not Gods chosen people, I could not represent them from door to door. To me it would be like representing the Catholic church. Would I go with someone else and let them do the talking? I did one time and that was it. So, if I was put into a position where my son or wife insisted that I go out with them. Then I might go but I would insist on them talking for whatever reason. My conscience wold not allow me to represent what I believe are truly false prophets. I believe the FDS has place themselves in the position as savior/Christ in the eyes of the JW. The Bible is clear on how to determine who false prophets are. Perimeno and e-watchman both believe JW’s are still Gods chosen people. In my view, nothing could be farther than the truth.

    Matthew 23, “13 “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for YOU yourselves do not go in, neither do YOU permit those on their way in to go in. 14 ——

    15 “Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU traverse sea and dry land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one YOU make him a subject for Ge·hen´na twice as much so as yourselves.”

    Your brother,
    Greybeard

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    • Dennis says:

      Thanks GB for the reply,

      >>To me it would be like representing the Catholic church.

      There are a lot of similarities aren’t there.

      >>I believe the FDS has place themselves in the position as savior/Christ in the eyes of the JW.

      Yes, I also hold this belief.

      >>Perimeno and e-watchman both believe JW’s are still Gods chosen people.

      Their writings do start out with that premise and attempt to support it through out. That’s why I don’t read them much as I believe that premise to be in error. IMO

      >>In my view, nothing could be farther than the truth.

      Would you agree with me that there are Christians mixed in among them? Just Christians that hold some incorrect views like everyone else.

      Your Brother,
      Dennis

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      • greybeard says:

        Yes Dennis I do agree there are Christians mixed in among them. Very few in number. I believe a true Christian is one that obeys Christ, has a personal relationship with him and partakes. I hope I am wrong on that point because I would love to see my family and all JW’s be labeled as true followers of Christ. Sad to say, to me they appear to be followers of men, the GB/”FDS”/JWorg.

        I do believe they will be apart of the meek that will inherit the earth. That is what they want anyway. I believe we will be together after the 1000 years. This is only my opinion and I know I could be wrong. On some points I hope I am wrong.

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    • Anonymous says:

      Hi Greybeard!
      Let’s just say strict adherers to the WTS theology are not automatically chosen by God; but there are some “choice ones” at the Kingdom Hall, as we all well know. We also know that ‘the first will be last, and the last, first’; so we leave the choosing to our Heavenly Father.
      Peace and love, Brother!

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    • Alden says:

      Hi Brother Greybeard!

      Even though there can be no blanket approval of those associating with the WTS, there are still some ‘choice ones’ at the Kingdom Hall. It’s almost worth going just for them. The KH is just as good a public place as any to cultivate fellowship. If someone finds a public place where their spiritual needs are better satisfied than at the KH, I would be the last one to try to impede their progress. Unfortunately, I personally am a lazy guy and I am not capable of organizing a better program myself. I’m not a theologian. I still find refreshment at the hall, though I don’t live in the dream world I once did. I have intense love for people, without distinctions. If I have the possibility to practice love, it brings me great joy. And if that happens to be at a KH, what’s wrong with that?

      Peace and love to all

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  12. Dennis says:

    Thanks Simpleman, Andrew and DanielB for your replies to my questions. Simpleman, my curiosity is peaked so I will definitely go read the article you suggested.

    Your Brother,
    Dennis

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  13. LonelySheep says:

    I personally disagree a lot with the so called prophetic interpretations of the FDS.

    So when I go preaching I just use the Bible and talk about the Kingdom, using scriptures from the sermon, Daniel 2:44 etc. I had a recent discussion with a person, I was working alone and I told him that I did not agree with everything the Witnesses believe in. He really responded to that and I have a RV. Now don’t get me wrong I’m not going to start my own little group with him, but in no way can I teach somebody about 1914.

    I view my ministry as fulfilling a commandment to preach and at this moment being amongst JW is the best way I can do this; that is my main reason for still associating with them. My conscience is clear, even though as GB pointed out, they are in error on a number of things, so are ALL the other churches in Christendom. So none has the full truth, therefore I may as well hang around with JW’s just so that I can obey Jesus’ command and preach.

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    • greybeard says:

      Hi LonelySheep,

      You said “none has the full truth”. I ask, “have any Christians ever had full truth?” Jesus said by “love” you will recognize my disciples. Is it loving to DF those who are not in full 100% agreement with our teachings?

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    • andrew says:

      I hear you Lonelysheep.
      I agree with you that no church in Christendom (including the JWs) teaches 100% true doctrine. The JWs, Baptists, Catholics, Evangelicals etc. all are part of the field of Matt. 13 that has both wheat and weeds.
      The difficult part of being a JW is the no tolerance policy of disagreement. Being in stealth-mode all the time is wearisome.

        (Quote)

      • DanielB says:

        I agree with you Andrew. None of the churches have 100% truth. I remember hearing this from persons of various faiths, for all of life. It’s general knowledge, isn’t it. I will agree with the fact of how uncomfortable it is to sit or stand in a church and hear a prayer to Jesus as though he is The Almighty God, or how sad it is to discover a church with rampant adultery being practiced. Or tolerance of the many things that are being discussed about what we find at a kingdom hall.

        Lonelysheep, I can relate to your field ministry work too. In later years, I would often do as you and Andrew mention, and use the bible mainly. The words are pure, and a delight to share with many who will give God’s Word due respect. I would often refer to Daniel 2:44 also, in contrasting the kingdom to this world that will be replaced.

        So if the decision is to stay, don’t feel overly lonely, as you are in company with many who love Yehowah too.

        Brotherly affections,
        Daniel

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    • Heavy Heart says:

      I feel the same way. I am so confused-I was not raised a Witness but went back to learn what was required of me as a Christian. The Witnesses are the only people I knew of that really knew the Bible. When I started to ask questions about a few things just to understand–how can I preach if I dont understand it myself was my take– it wasnt pretty. I was told on like I did something wrong–it reminded me of the movie, Invasion of The Body Snatchers when they would make that noise and point their finger–alerting the “others.” I went to learn, not to be told this is it or else. I do feel that most of what I have learned is in line with Bible principle. I cant stand the fact that there is an “organization” that is the mediator–that just doesnt sit well with me. Or that I am looking over my shoulder as I write this, feeling guilty. So what do I do? Take pieces and live a lie or face not gathering together and possibly start making up my own understanding and fall away from the truth. Help

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      • andrew says:

        Welcome to the site, Heavy Heart. Many of us have been in a very similar position as you can see from reading the comments.

        You can not “fall away from the truth” by leaving an organization. The truth is Jesus Christ. I have faced the same fight for integrity as you are facing. Stay and be quiet, speak and be DFed, or just leave. I’ve decided on the 3rd option, just leave. (see my article “The fight for Integrity”.

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  14. DanielB says:

    Andrew, I thank you for your comment, and I see that you are handling things as I would have. You are a brother, and this I can tell.

    Greybeard, I agree with you on how you are now on being identified and allied with them. There has been warnings about associating with certain elements among professed Christians, back to Paul’s letter penned to Timothy, over their “having a form of godly devotion but proving false to it’s power; and from these turn away.” (2Ti 3.5). Then in addition, to help with the identity, “(vs. 7), “always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.” So however beggerly man that I may be, I am glad to have escaped and would never go back to the vomit. They have a mixture, of combining truths with falsehood, realizing it or not.

    Dennis, I have the impression that Eberhard (perimeno) views the organization as having had the utensils of God in their grip, and the choosing of God, and has become a stumbling block. And he knows that though wrong on many accounts, that it is not for us to Judge them all bad. And I think we are confering on this here.

    What I am particularly interested in now, is the subject of the two witnesses, and bible alusions to this situation we are drawing association with. I read the prophets of Ezekiel, Daniel, and Micah, and am fascinated over what is now happening!

    Exciting times, my brothers. And the Master is for us!

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  15. DanielB says:

    Now I have.

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    • DanielB says:

      You have a wonderful analytical mind, WhiskeryGreyMan! :)

      Since you are thinking this way, how do you see current conditions in Libya and Egypt tying in? I refer to Daniel 11:43. Would it be too early to tell, with your thoughts on the happenings over there?

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      • greybeard says:

        I don’t really know. I am no expert on the subject that’s for sure. You have my curiosity up so I will need to study this passage of scripture more. If I was to guess I would think the king of the south appears to be the US. They are after the Gold/oil and the king of the North, who knows? China? Russia? The terrorists… I’m really not up on this like I should be. I would love to hear your thoughts on this. The news on TV looks as if things could progress fast…

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  16. Simpleman says:

    Hi Greybeard interesting subject King of the North.

    “If I was to guess I would think the king of the south appears to be the US. They are after the Gold/oil and the king of the North, who knows? China? Russia? The terrorists… I’m really not up on this like I should be. I would love to hear your thoughts on this”

    Whether or not individuals agree with e-watchman’s take on theology is neither here or there, e-watchman has written extensively on the identity of the KOTN and the KOTS. In his book ‘Jehovah Himself Has Become King’ there is a chapter dedicated to this subject and it makes compelling reading.

    King maintains the KOTN originally Roman has never changed its identity and today is the Britain empire. The KOTS is the USA and I happen to agree with him on this point, it makes compelling reading.

    I would love to have your thoughts on this chapter; we really need to get out of the box on this one.

    Really were Germany and the USSR ever KOTN?

    The chapter on the King of the North can be downloaded as an mp3

    Chapter 13 – KING OF THE NORTH
    http://e-watchman.com/jehovah/.....north.html

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  17. greybeard says:

    Hi Simpleman,

    We try to make it a point to respond to all questions on this web site. I have answered all your questions up until now. In response, I have asked you many questions directly and you always side step them. Like the last question I posed to you in your comment #10 on this thread about “Gods household.” Either you don’t read our posts or you are ignoring them. Now you ask for my thoughts on something else?

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  18. Simpleman says:

    Greybeard I did explain in a previous post I am a very busy man and don’t have the luxury of sitting at the computer all day debating these subjects,I only wish I could.

    I can only post when I can post.

    However, if the going is good tomorrow I will answer your question – who constitutes the “House of God”.

    I can assure you I’m not avoiding anything here.

    As the subject the KOTN came up I though the link I posted had an interesting perspective, so I recommend reading it.

    What this site needs is a forum that will allow debate to flow more freely, hopefully that will happen.

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    • greybeard says:

      That’s fine and I understand that. A new forum has been added to this web site. The link is at the top. Looking forward to it. Regarding the question, “who constitutes the “House of God”? We all know Israel was this household. Please explain how Jehovah’s Witness’s have taken that position to the exclusion of all others and when this happened.

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  19. Scepticalone says:

    Hello:

    Some of your suggestion can set up in my mind a terrible conflict within a person. You will be “found out” sooner or later if you are playing a duel role in the organization. Jesus says “you cannot serve two masters you must love the one or hate the other” in other words even from an organizational standard there is no middle road. It is this or that, not this and that kind of situation even with current leadership.

    You don’t have to be disfellowshipped if you are careful and it also depends upon the “spirit” of the local body of elders. If they are organizational men be careful. You can possibly beat the judicial committee at their own game and possibly confound them in the judicial process and create a sort of “standoff”.

    Sincerely

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    • greybeard says:

      Scepticalone said, ““you cannot serve two masters you must love the one or hate the other”

      That is a very good point.

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      • greybeard says:

        However, I don’t think anyone is encouraging others to “serve” the JW/org here are they? If one is going door to door does that serve them if they are not promoting the GB? One might do these things to keep family and friends. Is that serving two masters in your opinion?

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    • andrew says:

      Hi Scepticalone,
      When I go door to door I do not go as a representative of the Watchtower. Probably anyone who reads this blog doesn’t either, we go as followers of Christ. I agree that staying in the organization with my beliefs is a challenge and that is why I will be leaving it in time. Others though take a different viewpoint and that is their choice.

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    • DanielB says:

      Dear Scepticalone,

      I am considering your thought here,
      “Jesus says “you cannot serve two masters you must love the one or hate the other” in other words even from an organizational standard there is no middle road. It is this or that, not this and that kind of situation even with current leadership.”

      With this verse,
      Here is where Jesus was helping his listeners in his sermon on the mount to “stop being anxious about your souls as to what you will eat or what you will drink…”, etc., (Mt6:24,25).

      What is being done here at this site, is practicing his additional words through Paul to the Corinthians (2Cor. 13:5): “Keep testing whether you are in the faith, keep proving what you yourselves are. Or do you not recognise that Jesus Christ is in union with you?”

      This process takes time, and those here are doing everything humanly possible in drawing closer to the Word.

      Yes, the one Master, is watching.

      It takes a little to understand. Nice of you to come along and draw out some good thoughts from us.

      Welcome.

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  20. DanielB says:

    Also, when Jesus says “you cannot serve two masters…”, he was referring to himself as being one, which has been replaced by the ORG. -food for thought.

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  21. Scepticalone says:

    Hello:

    Anybody can go from door to door but not as one who identifies himself or herself as representing the local congregation of JW’s at the Kindom Hall. If you want to go from door on your own talking about Jesus and the Bible that is all right but one must have the approval of the local body of elders or one must be approved by the rules of the GB if you are going to say that you represent the local congregation of JW’s or that you are in association with it otherwise your reports will not be accepted. I know this because I served as an elder for 24 years. There is no way of getting around it.

    The two masters quote was used as a general principle. Jesus will judge us as individuals and not part of an organization (Rev 20:13, Rev. 20:23)

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  22. DanielB says:

    Hi Scepticalone. I see your difficulty here in understand what can and what cannot be done.

    It’s hard to adjust from so many years of diligently serving God the best way that we can, and here, among these strugglers, we mainly realize that there really is freedom in pure worship. And conscience can be exercized on so many things, with the freedom of Galatians 5:13-17.

    Personally, I see a slavish concern in the thought,

    “If you want to go from door on your own talking about Jesus and the Bible that is all right but one must have the approval of the local body of elders or one must be approved by the rules of the GB if you are going to say that you represent the local congregation of JW’s or that you are in association with it otherwise your reports will not be accepted. I know this because I served as an elder for 24 years. There is no way of getting around it.”

    I believe that the book of Acts refers to the holy spirit, as it concludes, “Therefore let it be known to you that this, the means by which God saves, has been sent out to the nations; they will certainly listen to it.” And “it”, was the preaching of the kingdom of God. (See Acts 28:24-31) Note the final thought, “preaching the kingdom of God to them and teaching the things concerning the Lord Jesus Christ with the greatest freeness of speach, without hinderance.” Nice thought, isn’t it.

    If a brother in Christ chooses to say that he represents a local congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, he may speak with such freedom. If he does not say that he represents the same, he may also speak with such freedom. If you have something that the Lord Jesus Christ directs differently than this, please help us understand it.

    Thank you, for making us freely think.

    Christian love,
    DanielB

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  23. Scepticalone says:

    Hello:

    I am not disputing what one’s conscience says I am disputing what is allowed in the JW organization. You make a connection to the organization when you go out in the field service with the local arrangement. I do not understand why this point cannot be understood. Conscience is NOT respected on this point by the organization you must go along with what “they” dictate or you will not be accepted or recognized. I fully agree with your thought on preaching Jesus but the organization simply does not look at it that way. They feel that Jesus is directing things organizationally and not through the individual. This is the point that I am trying to make. I don’t how else to put it. We seem to be on parallel thoughts here.

    Most sincerely

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  24. DanielB says:

    Thanks for clarifying, Scepticalone. Without talking face to face it is difficult to understand the intention of comments sometimes. I see now that you have agreement in the things you said, rather than disagreement with our general reasoning here. Yes, we are obviously running parallel. Thanks.

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  25. Scepticalone says:

    Hello:

    Dear DanielB:

    Thank you for patients and May Jah bless your efforts to serve him and his beloved son.

    Sincerely

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  26. Toby says:

    I was just wondering, how do your beliefs differ from the bible teach book. I was studying this book and have my own major issues with it. please respond. thanks so much.

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    • andrew says:

      Hey Toby thanks for reading the article.

      Wow where to begin!?

      First off I’ve realized JWs are a legalistic religion. On many matters the Society has made rules where they should have left it to each Christian’s conscience.

      I don’t believe the organization nor its leaders have special insight to biblical interpretation. I don’t believe that Christians are divided in 2 groups one anointed and one not. I think all Christians who are following Jesus are children of God, are in the New Covenant, have been declared righteous, are part of the body of Christ, and should partake at the Memorial.

      I believe faithful Christians are to found among all the denominations as I believe the weeds and wheat have not begun to be separated.

      I believe Jesus began his rule as king in 33 C.E., 1914 is an insignificant date. I believe Jesus’ return will be visible.

      These are a few of the things that I disagree with.

      Andrew

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      • Amos says:

        Good reply Andrew,

        My only difference is that I’m having a real good look (as time permits) at the day & year of the crucifiction. At present I’m leaning towards Nisan 14 (wednesday) AD 30, as this seems to fit in with what would otherwise appear to be a contradiction(s) between the gospels.

        Amos

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