Whom shall we go away to?

It may seem impossible for some to comprehend life outside the organization

“Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.” –John 6:68-69

So answered Peter when asked by Jesus whether he wanted to abandon him along with others who had found his teachings untenable.

Time and again this scripture is used in the Society’s publications to reinforce the seemingly hopeless consequences for any who choose to turn their backs on the organization. Take as an example the following experience, quoted in the February 15th 2006 Watchtower on page 30:

“Accepting a change when it comes and adapting to it can be difficult,” admits one longtime elder. What has helped him accept the many refinements he has witnessed in the 48 years that he has been a Kingdom proclaimer? He answers: “Having the right attitude is the key. Refusing to accept a refinement is to be left behind as the organization moves ahead. If I find myself in a situation where changes seem hard to accept, I reflect on Peter’s words to Jesus: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.’ Then I ask myself, ‘Where shall I go away to—out there into the darkness of the world?’ This helps me to hold firmly to God’s organization.”—John 6:68.

The message is simple: as organizational and doctrinal refinements are introduced, one should accept these unflinchingly without question – because after all, there is nowhere else to go beyond the confines of the organization. Indeed, any who doubt the Society or Governing Body are portrayed as being just as disloyal and fickle as those who left Jesus because they were shocked when he asked them to figuratively drink of his blood and eat of his flesh. –John 6:52-56

Perhaps you have pondered on this scripture after successfully uncovering the wealth of evidence that the Society is actually NOT God’s spirit-directed organization after all. You may feel that the same words spoken by Peter apply to you and your interraction with the Watch Tower Society. If that is the case, please be assured that you are NOT in a similar situation whatsoever, and that Peter’s words (and, indeed, the question posed by Jesus) in no way apply to your predicament.

 “You have sayings of everlasting life”

When Peter spoke the above words, the last thing on his mind was any question of leaving an ‘organization’ of any kind. Jesus, and no human organization, was the one with sayings of everlasting life. (John 17:3) Peter had listened to Jesus’ words, and had come to the conclusion that he was the foretold Messiah, the “Holy One of God”. The last thing he wanted to do was separate himself from being a follower of God’s chosen one, simply because he had spoken rather cryptically on an issue that few were able to comprehend at the time.

Since Christ’s ascension to heaven, it has naturally been impossible to physically walk with Jesus as mere mortals. However, we can all individually remain his footstep followers by living our lives according to Christian principles without the need to attach ourselves to a human organization – particularly one that distorts the words of Christ to suit its own ends and perpetuate its legacy. – John 10:27; Acts 20:28-30

If you have succeeded in uncovering the overwhelming evidence that God is NOT directing the Watch Tower Society, then this does not necessarily mean that you have abandoned Christ – nor does it mean that you should. If anything, your relationship with Christ can be strengthened by having a direct and personal relationship with him, and not relying on the Society, or any human organization, to act as your intermediaries in a “two-tier” version of Christianity.*

 “Lord, whom shall we go away to?”

Even so, many who consider the prospect of turning their backs on the organization feel more than a little apprehension at the thought of simply walking away from the familiar surroundings of the Kingdom Hall, not to mention their former acquaintances. It is perfectly understandable to feel anxious about the transitional period between the inevitable shunning by former associates (as I have learned for myself, you will always be shunned to some degree, even if you remain as an ‘inactive’ one), and the challenge of finding new friends who will value you for who you are, rather than what you believe. Faced with this prospect, many may well ask, “where will I go?” or “whom will I be friends with?”

The late Ray Franz, a former member of the Governing Body, put it most eloquently when he said (on leaving the organization): “I feel no need to ‘go’ anywhere. For I know the One who has the ‘sayings of everlasting life.’ I appreciate the strengthening companionship of those I have with whom to associate (either personally or by correspondence) and hope that the future will add to my acquaintance with yet other sincere persons whose concern is for truth, not simply in doctrine, in words, but as a way of life.” (Crisis of Conscience, p406)

I can personally echo those words. In the relatively short period since I made my own decision to become inactive and distance myself from the organization, I have not only made friends who are like-minded – I have also regained family members whom I was previously snubbing because they themselves had drifted away years before. The Society would have us believe that everyone beyond the confines of the organization is a vicious and rabid “world-ling”; hell-bent on pursuing their own selfish agendas. The reality could not be further from the truth. Only when you start to look do you realize that nice, genuine people surround you in all walks of life, and any of them would make a fine friend. Sure, there are always the ‘rotten apples’ (as indeed there are inside the organization) but you will certainly be surprised at how many honest, sincere people there are out there once you take the time to look.

It’s never easy embracing change. In many ways, it goes against the grain of who we are. We humans crave familiarity and comfort. Drastic transition never sits well with any of us. However, this does not make change impossible. No matter where you go, or who you end up being friends with in the future, you will always have Christ with you as a friend. The benefits of having him as your personal mediator far outweigh the superficial and conditional relationships that you have experienced within the organization. Furthermore, you will be surprised how many people there are out there who will love and accept you for who you are, and not based on whether you are putting hours in each month.

If you need further help with finding the courage to make new friendships, you need only contact any of us on JW Struggle, and we will be happy to assist in any way we can.

Your brother,




*Most Jehovah’s Witnesses are well aware of the Society’s claim that there are two types of Christians, those with a heavenly calling (the 144,000), and those with an earthly calling. However, few are aware that the Watchtower publications insist that Jesus Christ ONLY serves as mediator between God and the anointed ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ class, despite scriptural evidence to the contrary. (1 Tim 2:5,6) The Great Crowd of Other Sheep are said to indirectly benefit from this arrangement, but they DO NOT have Christ as their personal mediator with God. The “small print” of this belief may be found in the Questions from Readers of the April 1st, 1979 Watchtower. The highly questionable assertion has yet to be refuted in any subsequent publications. A JWStruggle video is available that discusses this little-known doctrine in more detail.

Rating 4.86 out of 5

Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

44 Comments on “Lord, whom shall we go away to?”

  1. This is a great piece of writing. Thanks for the effort.

    You know, I found that upon leaving the WT Organiazation, I felt spiritually empty. There was a void. It wasn’t until years later that I was able to percieve why.

    It was because all those years I spent in the Kingdom Hall, all those years in field service, all the hours spent in assemblies, all the weekends spent at Quick Builds…all of these activities missed the point.

    I was never taught of the necessity of having a real relationship with God thrugh his Son. I was decieved into believeing that I could rely instead, on a relationship with a human construct – The Organization.

    I found this to be a poor substitute. Insufficient from the start, and doomed to failure from the inception, because the very idea is faulty.

    Ironic, that I called myself a ‘True Christian’ while thinking that all Jesus’ words were really for someone else. My life didn’t improve until I realized that when He was speaking to his disciples, He was really speaking to ME…and directly to anyone else who desired his Kingdom.

    This is why, I believe, that the WT Organization is doomed, and why the brothers and sisters are wearing out. A faulty substitute has been foisted upon us. How long can you bear weight upon a fracturing crutch? A perfect alternative was already presented, we have only to accept His help.


    • Cedars says:

      Hello Synchronicity – thank you for your kind words, and for briefly relating your own experience. Hopefully this article and others will help people to realise that, though daunting, the transition between organizational pawn and free-thinking Christian is both necessary and highly fulfilling. Cedars


  2. confused says:

    Wow, that article really was insightful and so was the comment. Thank you. I’m trying to put this together in my head and heat. I don’t want to lose my family, I’m frightened of that yet I’m frightened to stay. I taught my children loyalty to an org. I too judged, shunned, turned my back on those ” spiritually weak”. And now? It is I who will be cast out, shunned. I am left on my knees for the first time asking for help from Jehovah in making decisions for prior I was just robotic.


    • Cedars says:

      Hello Confused – thank you for your comments. I genuinely sympathise with your situation. I don’t have children myself, but I can understand that it is significantly more distressing when there are children involved. I will say this – I have seen in my own extended family what happens when a father comes to the realization that it isn’t the truth, and does little or nothing about it (i.e. by telling his children). All that happens is that the organization continues to perpetuate unchallenged into successive generations, leaving it up to your children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren to struggle with the problem further down the line. The brave actions you take now, though difficult, may prevent untold heartache and deep schisms in your family many decades from now. Please keep this in mind, and make it a matter of prayer. Cedars


  3. FutureMan says:

    A very good post Cedars, and much appreciated, I’m sure by most of those who have read it.

    It is for sure that there is no where else to go to except to Jesus himself and what Jesus had taught.

    And I’m sure that most of us now who find ourselves in the “spiritual wilderness”, already know this one fact.

    We accept Jesus as “our mediator”, between us and our Heavenly father as intended.

    He was the beginning of the “Kingdom of God” as related to us here on the earth.

    This is what John the baptist preached prior to Jesus ministry and directing people to this same Kingdom.

    He himself did not really understand it, but he did know that Jesus Christ, was an important part of the Kingdom.

    Jesus had brought the “Kingdom of the Heavens” down to us here on the earth so that us imperfect humans can benefit and be enlightened by it and attain perfection and also gain eternal son-ship with God and eternal life.


    • Cedars says:

      Hello Futureman, I appreciate your remarks. You describe very well how we can all enjoy a personal relationship with Christ without attaching ourselves to an organization. Cedars


  4. Ruth says:

    Dear Brothers Cedars how I enjoyed your post.
    The Society would have us believe that everyone beyond the confines of the organization is a vicious and rabid “world-ling”; hell-bent on pursuing their own selfish agendas. The reality could not be further from the truth.

    Yes Bro Cedars you are so right the reality of coming and being with our Lord has made so much difference to so many people. It takes time to understand when we are coming out of false religions. But slowly and surely we are all making fine progress to the true understanding of the real truth in our Lord.
    The appreciation we can now give him instead of feeling he was for someone else, not us made me so sad as a witness. Now the excitement of being brought into Jesus love. The blessings of finding like minded ones to gather with makes our life all the more worth living.
    The eternal truths he is teaching us makes our hearts jump and leap for joy.
    What a wonderful place the simple Gospel is. John18;37
    To this end l was born,and for this cause l came into the world, that l should bare witness unto truth.
    Everyone that is of the truth and listen hears my voice.

    Matt 13;16-17
    Blessed are your eyes for they see, your ears for they hear.
    prophets and righteous men have desired to see these things which you see and have not seen them and to hear things you have heard and not heard them.

    My goodness does this not make us leap for joy in our hearts that the holy one of the father died for us to gain knowledge of him and to give us all of him. Offering his blood as a sacrifice for our sins so we could be able to view all this.
    Your sister Ruth


    • Cedars says:

      Hello Ruth – you make some nice expressions, I thank you for your feedback. The word “truth” is over-emphasized by the Society, and yet they have made it a primary goal to obscure basic truths from their followers in order to promote their own interests. I personally believe it is impossible to know the whole truth in a human lifetime, but it is certainly possible to identify “untruth” and make this evident to others, so that future generations can benefit from our discoveries in their own quest for enlightenment. Cedars


  5. Janet says:

    This article really hit home for me. I was raised as a JW but was never baptized and stopped going to meetings when I left home at age 20. I have other immediate family members who are very active in their congregations. I have always had a strong love for Jah and his son Jesus, but I just didn’t feel that the organization was the place for me. I have over the years been searching for a “church” to “belong” to but they all seem so corrupt and I have been so lost.I was never shunned by my family or any of the brothers and sisters from my old congregation. My 13 year old son passed away this past July and I have again been desperately searching for the truth and any sort of comfort that I might see him again on earth.It consumes me.My family and their friends in their congregations are constantly calling and coming over to remind me that I only have the hope of seeing him again if I come back to the “fold” and start attending meetings again because I need to be baptized as a JW if I want any hope of surviving armageddon. I just can’t in any good conscience become a JW just because they want me to, but it can be so tempting just because I feel a strong need to be around people who are loving and compassionate and who will keep reminding me that my son will live again.This site has been a real source of comfort for me and I have read pretty much every post. I feel that this is where I need to be right now for some spiritual “food”. I’m still completely devastated and lost, but through this site I have been able to start rebuilding my personal relationship with Jehovah and Jesus again…a relationship that I thought was impossible when I chose to stop attending meetings. Thank you brothers and sisters.


    • Cedars says:

      Hello Janet – I was very moved by your experience, and thank you for taking the time to unburden yourself. I know what it’s like to come under pressure from family and friends to return. The attention and affection you receive at meetings etc can be very enticing, and there is so much nostalgia and emotion. However, it’s well worth remembering that any ‘love’ you are shown in this organization is conditional. These people cannot say hand-on-heart that they will be there for you, no matter what – because of the cruel shunning policy. No human organization is deserving of your devotion, least of all one that promotes the division of families. I was saddened to hear of the loss of your boy. No parent should have to outlive their offspring, and you will carry the intense grief with you for a long time. Please find comfort and encouragment in your bible reading and in the company of others whose minds have been freed. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know. Kind regards, Cedars


    • Janet, your story is so compelling. Thanks for sharing. Like you, I was never baptised in to the JW religion, and although I have not suffered a loss such as yours, I have lost other beloved family members. Witness family likes to use the carrot of ‘everlasting life’ as motivation to return the Kingdom Hall. It loses it’s power when I remember this:

      Everlasting life is not their gift to give.

      I have had to remind them of this. Organizational conditioning leads them to behave as though it were. It is merely a case of the WT organization again attempting to ursurp the powers and positions reserved only for God and his Son. They act as though Jah has imparted the power of resurrection to the men of the organization. What is that, other than an egregious lie?

      And, they also have a tendency to call it a ‘hope’. As though God may or may not decide to honor his promises. Is it only a ‘hope’ or is it a promise that we can have confidence in? By the WT Org’s attempt to manipulate the ressurection for the sake of their own power and glory, they actually call into doubt God’s willingness to do what He has said.

      Again, where is the faith, and what is it built upon?

      I could go into chapters about Witness family that is now growing old and nearing death; when they were promised they wouldn’t see it. They put their faith in a magazine, and it’s being shattered before their eyes.

      It would’ve been better to be honest with the brothers and sisters, and tell them that they may well see death, but it won’t matter a whit anyways, so take heart in the promise of the Kingdom. But no, because that actually FREES people from religious bondage, and that’s not the business the WT Society is in. I am still struggling through my own grief, because I have had these expectations fed to me since my youth.


  6. Ruth says:

    Dear Janet.
    I tell you my heart from Australia is with you right now. Please if you feel you would love a sister to talk to in private my email is supposso@gmail.com.au. Where you are right now is where the heavenly has placed you. He is letting you see you are not on your own.
    He is calling so many people away from organized religion into his heart so to speak. He really loves you. And you are still in the fold or otherwise you would not be talking with us! And yes your son will be in your arms one day rest assured of that.
    Your story saddened my heart. But my confidence that our father will make all things new makes me believe in our future all the more. Jesus speaks so much about love in his words. he gives so much comfort to us.

    We are familiar with the saying we are to love one another! that proves we are his disciples. Do you know what Janet? More than anything else he is telling us by the way he leads and helps us how much love he has to give to us. But on the other hand he wants us to love him and his father so much.

    Why! God loved the world so much he gave his son. The whole of the gospels is centered on Christ and love.No other love for us is so compelling in our very being.

    What he wants us to receive is himself. Not an organization. religion. In turn we pass on this love through his spirit.
    When Jesus said to his disciple. Go your way tell John what things you have seen and heard. How the blind see! the lame walk and lepers are clean the deaf hear the dead are raised to the poor the gospel is preached ( poor in spirit)
    Now Janet look what he says next.
    Blessed is he who ever shall not be offended by me. Luke;22,23

    Yes my dear sister you are now on the right road. You are on a road that makes personal contact through pray reading your bible and speaking with Gods sheep.
    Much love from your sister Ruth and everyone here.


  7. FutureMan says:

    Hello Janet, I sympathize with the loss of your 13 year old son and the anguish that you must be going through right now because of this.
    I myself was a baptized member of Jehovah’s Witnesses for over 30 years and I have to admit that in all that time I did not really have a true relationship with either God whom I knew as (Jehovah) or his Son (Jesus).

    Now I’m trying to personally redefine my relationship with God as our (Heavenly Father) through our mediator who is his Son (Jesus Christ) as we know him by name today.

    It is very hard to have a very real individual personal relationship with God when we are encouraged to give our loyalties to an organization, which amounts to an idolatry of sorts.

    But our undivided attention should be focused on our Heavenly Father through his Son Jesus Christ, whom himself is described in the book of Isaiah as our “eternal Father” or “Everlasting Father” as is written in some translations.

    Isaiah 9
    6 For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. [LITV]

    This is not to say that Jesus is the Heavenly Father, but that he is our adoptive Father who bought us all from sin if we so choose to accept his sacrifice in behalf of our own individual sins and as a symbol of his own great love for us all, as well as mirroring his own Father’s great love for all his creatures throughout the entire inhabited universe.

    However Jesus did make a promise to his disciples that there would be both a resurrection of the unrighteous as well as the righteous.

    I understand from his statement that the righteous will be raised up with eternal life in view, and attributed to them as approved sons and daughters of God almost immediately as a reward for their “living faith” in Jesus and his self sacrificing love and his Heavenly Father who also allowed his only begotten Son to go through such an agonizing and undignified death.

    The unrighteous who are resurrected will yet have to prove their faith for receiving eternal life or being put on the path towards eternal life.

    But the point is because of God’s love and mercy, they will be given a chance to repent of their past sins and to be also put on the path of eternal life after they are resurrected.

    Jesus did not elaborate however, where this resurrection would occur.

    And far as Jehovah’s Witnesses saying to you that you will not see your son again unless you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is in my opinion presumptuous to the extreme.

    Perhaps we will all need more enlightenment in this area in the near future.

    Who are they, to decide who is going to receive a resurrection or not?

    Our “eternal Father” Jesus Christ (Michael “who is like God”) will use the powers of his Heavenly Father and by means of the Holy Spirit, to resurrect whomever he chooses to and without the consent of the presumptuous organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.


  8. FutureMan says:

    I’m continuing on here from my previous comment.

    This is to elaborate from my perspective and understanding as to the nature of the “eternal Father”.

    In the scriptures it is recorded that Jesus was fond of mankind.

    I’ll quote it here.

    Proverbs 8
    1 ¶ Does not wisdom call? And does not understanding speak?
    2 She stands in the top of high places, by the wayside, in the houses of the paths,
    3 beside the gates; at the mouth of the city, at the doors, she cries.
    4 I call to you, O men, and my voice is to the sons of men.
    5 Understand wisdom, simple ones; and fools, be of an understanding heart.
    6 Hear, for I will speak of excellent things, and from the opening of my lips shall be right things.
    7 For my mouth shall speak of truth, and wickedness is hateful to my lips.
    8 All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; nothing crooked or perverse is in them;
    9 they are all plain to the understanding one; and right to those who find knowledge.
    10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge, rather than choice gold.
    11 For wisdom is better than jewels, and all delights cannot be compared to it.
    12 ¶ I, wisdom, dwell with sense, and I find knowledge of discretions.
    13 The fear of Jehovah is to hate evil; I hate pride and loftiness, and the evil way, and the perverse mouth.
    14 Counsel and sound wisdom are mine; I am understanding; I have strength.
    15 By me kings reign, and leaders decree righteousness.
    16 Rulers and nobles rule by me, and all the judges of the earth.
    17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me early find me.
    18 Riches and honor are with me; enduring wealth and righteousness.
    19 My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my increase is better than the best silver.
    20 I walk in the path of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of justice;
    21 to cause those who love me to inherit wealth, and I will fill up their treasuries.
    22 ¶ Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of His way, from then, before His works.
    23 I was set up from everlasting, from that which was before the earth.
    24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no springs heavy with water.
    25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I was brought forth;
    26 before He had made the earth and the fields, or the highest part of the dust of the world.
    27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He set a circle on the face of the deep,
    28 when He formed the clouds above, when He made the strong fountains of the deep,
    29 when He gave to the sea its limit, that the waters should not pass beyond His command; when He decreed the foundations of the earth,
    30 then I was at His side, like a master workman; and I was His delights day by day, rejoicing before Him at every time;
    31 rejoicing in the world, His earth; and my delight was with the sons of men.[LITV]

    Now while this particular passage was related to “wisdom” itself, Jesus is the result of God’s wisdom and became a master worker for the creation of our universe and us mankind whom as it is mentioned here “wisdom”,personified as the son of God, whom took delight in the sons of men (us).

    We have other scriptures to show the role that Jesus did play in our creation such as this one and I will quote these here.

    John 1
    1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 He was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.
    4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men;[LITV]

    Colossians 1
    15 who is the image of the invisible God, the First-born of all creation.
    16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible; whether thrones, or lordships, or rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.
    17 And He is before all things, and all things have subsisted in Him.[LITV]

    Hebrews 1
    4 having become so much better than the angels, He has inherited a name more excellent than they.
    5 ¶ For to which of the angels did He ever say, “You are My Son; today I have begotten You”? And again, “I will be a Father to Him, and He shall be a Son to Me.” Psalm 2:7
    6 And again, when He brought the First-born into the world, He said, “And let all the angels of God worship Him.” MT-No Equiv
    7 And as to the angels, He said, “Who makes His angels spirits, and His ministers a flame of fire;” LXX-Psa. 103:4; MT-Psa. 104:4
    8 but as to the Son, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, A scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom;
    9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness beside Your fellows.” Psa. 45:6, 7
    10 And, “You, Lord, at the beginning founded the earth, and the heavens are works of Your hands.[LITV]

    So Jesus had a personal and vested interest in our welfare as our creator .

    He was our Father in the creative sense of the word and is also our light as a spiritual Father.

    So even though all creation throughout the entire universe is attributed to the Universal God (YHWH as recorded in the scriptures) and Heavenly Father (Jesus’s Father and creator), Jesus is also our Father both in a creative sense (Logos and the beginning)and a spiritual sense because of his involvement in our coming into being, and his role as a spiritual father who has guided us down through mankind’s history and who ultimately showed his fatherly love for us by laying down his own life for all mankind so that we can all progress to spiritual enlightenment and everlasting life.

    So by doing this he became our adoptive spiritual Father and our confirmed King (the one with the legal right) and who has being proven to be fit to rule over us in the real sense of the word.

    Jesus showed by his willingness to lay down his life for us all (the human race) a fatherly love that goes beyond all boundaries or the extremity of what love is between a Father’s love for a child or children.

    Our Heavenly Father showed the true boundaries of what his love is as the Heavenly father for all of us also by allowing his own Son whom he has great love for, to come down to earth and lay down his life for all of us, so that we all can be saved, if at all possible.

    2 Peter 3
    9 ¶ The Lord of the promise is not slow, as some deem slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not having purposed any to perish, but all to come to repentance.

    In the same way, each and everyone of us can show this same fatherly and motherly love to those whom we are responsible for both spiritually and physically and also brotherly love to those of our neighbor and especially to those whom we associate with in the Lord.


  9. Disappointed says:

    Dear Janet, my heart goes out to you. I too lost a child, although only a few days old. It was the most painful experience of my life. I can’t begin to imagine losing a precious child after so many years as you have. I found in those days, weeks and months after his death that whenever I felt I couldn’t cope I turned to God in prayer and poured my heart out to him and each time I was filled with a beautiful peace and closeness. No one can ever take that away from you. Stay strong by leaning on the Father, draw comfort from him, ask him as often as you need for his Holy Spirit. He will carry you through it. And even in the years ahead, although the pain never leaves you it does lessen in time. Remember Christ is our saviour and he died for ALL of us, not just JWs. God loves you and so does his son.


  10. Janet says:

    Thank you all so much for your kind words and loving support. It truly helps and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate all of you.
    Disappointed…I’m very sorry for your loss too. No parent should ever have to feel this type of pain. I’m trying to stay strong. I have 3 other young kids and I know I have to be there for them and help them through this too. It’s just so impossibly hard.


  11. SIAM says:

    Well done Brother Cedars. So many of us have been conditioned to think that there must be an organization that contains the “truth”. It is hard to accept especially if you are born in, that the only means of salvation is through our personal relationship with the Lord Jesus.

    The Society really minimizes Jesus’ role in salvation. Sure they pay some lip service to it, but more often than not they will focus on the importance of their small defined group of the anointed.

    Thanks my brother for posting this great article.



    • Cedars says:

      Hi SIAM – I enjoyed writing it, thanks so much! I think we need to give attention to myth-busting every so often. John 6 is always used to try to keep people under submission by creating a mental barbed wire fence, with all manner of unpleasant vices lurking beyond it. Once people realise the fence and the vices aren’t really there, it can be a bit overwhelming. Hopefully articles like this will help to ease the transition for those trapped under this damaging influence. Cedars


  12. greybeard says:

    Dear Cedars,

    I enjoyed your article very much! As a witness we actually keep a distance from “worldly” people as the WT/org taught us to do. Being true friends or really loving our neighbor was only superficial. We looked at them as those who will die at armageddon.

    After I was disfellowshipped my entire view of the “world” changed. These were the only friends I had. It was very humbling and I am glad it happened. I never realized how loving people in this world really can be because I was taught to not except it. We were taught to keep a distance.

    After 40 years of this type of thinking it can be hard to shake. I have come to believe that God truly does love everyone and most people as you say, are good people. Yes there are some bad apples. This reminds me of something a man told me who was a bus driver for over 30 years. He said that his take on everyone is that 9 out of 10 people are good people, kind people. It is that one in ten you got to watch out for. I imagine this ratio changes from place to place. Where I live, it sounds about right. I am not judging the 10% because that is up to God. I try to do my part to be friends with whoever I can. Life now is much different than it was as a JW. I no longer worry about every person I see being destroyed by God.

    Thanks again for your article,
    Your brother,


    • Cedars says:

      Hello Greybeard, thanks for your encouragement. I love the advice of your bus driver, so simple yet so true! It can be quite a relief once you realise that people outside the organization aren’t in fact like something out of a low-budget zombie film. I look forward to conributing more articles in the future, and enjoying more of those written by you and others. Cedars


  13. Ruth says:

    I do agree with some of things you mention but
    I would like to share with you what the h/spirit has told me who Jesus is after resigning from the w/tower

    As a witness I would say Jesus is only mighty god!
    Why Jehovah is Almighty I would say. “Then” the h/spirit brought a very interesting scripture to my eyes. Isaiah 10-21 told me Jehovah was called mighty God as well.that was the beginning of my research.

    John 1:1 clearly calls the word God. Isaiah 45;22,23 talks about YHWY saying For I am God and there is no other. ( That is clear enough for me)

    To say there are two Gods? “I wouldn’t like to go there.”
    Jesus said in John 5:58 He is the I AM.
    He also call himself the Alpha and the omega in revelation.

    Going back to Isaiah 9-6 Prince of peace
    Mighty god. eternal father wonderful councilor.
    You wrote Jesus is our father in a sense? Doesn’t matthew 23-9
    say there is only one father the heavenly father?

    Phillip said show us the father and that is enough for us.
    Jesus said. “Have I not been so long with you and you do not know me Phillip? Do you believe I am in the father and the father is in me? Did he say here in a sense I am your father? No.
    My Lord Jesus to me and lots of others is DIVINE.
    Neither is salvation in any other name under heaven and earth where by we must be saved.
    yet check the Hebrew scriptures and it says that about YHWH!

    The father son and holy spirit are truly God.
    Not a trinity. The holy spirit is more than a power. He is the spirit of God himself that to us witnesses was a real eye opener.
    He grieves for us. speaks to us in our minds. teaches us. directs us. the list goes on. He is in reality from the father himself. The fathers spirit. His very inner being and power. Not some dead force that is pushed to help. Also our councilor.

    Now in Isaiah 6 it say Jesus is our councilor!!!says he is the eternal father. hes a prince. Mighty godhe is everything.

    As far as the 1st born of all creation go see what real Greek scholars have to say about that. “Preeminence”

    Jesus Christ is not Michael the archangel nor has he gone back to heaven as an archangel. That is blasphemy.

    Cant really work out what you really believe FutureMan.
    Who do you really say Jesus Christ is?
    And I will not start debating either. But I had to put it out there as it means so much to me to declare where I come from.
    I know who Jesus is. He has told me. he is divine. Divinity means God.



  14. FutureMan says:

    Well Ruth, I can certainly see where you are coming from.

    And I sincerely hope that I have not offended you.

    But I certainly do not believe that Jesus was just an Arch-angel.

    True in the bible Michael is referred to once throughout the entire scriptures as an Arch-Angel and this might shock some people but I believe this to either be a mistranslation or that the Bible writer who wrote Jude (presumably himself) was incorrect in what he said.

    Also we have to keep in mind that Jude was referring to other writings (presumably writings of Enoch) to write this.

    Jude 1
    9 But Michael the archangel, when contending with the Devil, he argued about the body of Moses; he dared not bring a judgment of blasphemy, but said, “Let the Lord rebuke you!” Zech. 3:2

    There is no other scripture in the Bible that refers to Jesus as an Arch-angel.

    But please consider these scriptures.

    Daniel 12
    1 ¶ And at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as has not been from the being of a nation until that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the Book.[LITV]

    Here Jesus is referred to as the “great ruler” or other translations refer to him as the “great prince”.
    In other words a sovereign ruler.

    Now refer to the book of Revelation.

    I’ll quote this scripture here.

    Revelation 12
    7 And war occurred in Heaven, Michael and his angels making war against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels made war,
    8 but they did not have strength, nor yet was place found for them in Heaven.[LITV]

    Now clearly it shows that Michael (Who is like God) has authority over the angels as they are referred to as “his angels”.

    Now when we go to this next scripture we can see that Michael and Jesus is linked.

    Revelation 12
    10 And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ, because the accuser of our brothers is thrown down, the one accusing them before our God day and night.

    Now many may ask, how can Michael be linked to Jesus and still be considered to be divine or a Deity?

    Well consider the meaning of the name Michael (Who is like God).

    I believe this to be the proper meaning of Michael’s name rather than a question as (Who is like God?)
    In any case there appears to be some controversy over that exact meaning of Michael’s name.

    But please also consider this scripture in 1 Thessalonians 4.

    15 For we say this to you in the Word of the Lord, that we the living who remain to the coming of the Lord will not at all go before those who have fallen asleep.
    16 Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel’s voice, and with God’s trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first.[LITV]

    Now I know this is an old favorite of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but it is a scripture worthy of consideration in this regard.

    Now getting back to my previous post of which you are questioning in this regards.

    Yes I do believe that it was Jesus who appeared to Moses as “I Am”.

    To all intent and purposes he was YHWH (Yahweh or Jehovah).

    But still not the Universal God and Creator of our entire universe which is made up of many thousands of smaller universes.

    Jesus was a “Creator Son” of God who is the sovereign of his own universe and proved this as his legal right by coming down to earth to live among us and also to die for us.

    This is what any righteous Fatherly ruler should be willing to do for his people if necessary.

    The same goes for a Father, his love should be so great that he would be even willing to lay down his own life in behalf of his family.

    But still rather than refer worship to himself Jesus while he was on the earth always referred the worship to his Father (The universal Father and God and Creator of this entire universe of universes).

    Jesus as a creator Son of God, was generated in the expressed image of his Heavenly father with creative attributes and also the ability to pass on the life-force and spirit of his Heavenly Father.

    This is indicated in as I have quoted previously.

    Hebrews 1
    2 in these last days He spoke to us in the Son, whom He appointed heir of all; through whom He indeed made the ages;
    3 who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the Word of His power, having made purification of our sins through Himself, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high, Psa. 110:1 [LITV]

    And also indicated by these scriptures as recorded in the book of Revelation.

    Revelation 2
    5 And the One sitting on the throne said, Behold! I make all things new. And He says to me, Write, because these Words are faithful and true.
    6 And He said to me, It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending. To the one thirsting, I will freely give of the fountain of the water of life.

    13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, the First and the Last.[LITV]

    In our Universe, Jesus is indeed the “first one and the last”.

    He is also the beginning of all life in his universe and to the extent of the expansion of creation within his universe as this universe is still expanding and new star systems are being formed even as we speak.

    Also new life is also being formed along with other intelligent life like us.


  15. FutureMan says:

    I feel that I need to further add, that the information that I have previously posted is from my own research of both the Bible and other writings that many here on this forum may not be aware of as yet or maybe are aware of but not willing to investigate because of fear of being taken away from Biblical truth as presented by mainstream Christianity.

    I have no such fear, as I believe in God and Jesus, 100 percent.

    I do not claim to present this as a result of the backing of “Holy Spirit”, but I do sincerely hope that the “Spirit of Truth” is motivating me in this endeavor.

    I believe that the more I research and dig into both the Bible and other writings, the more the spirit of truth does present itself.

    In this I believe that the spirit of truth does stand alone apart from all writings, but is manifested in the writings of the prophets of old and the writings of the Apostles and other disciples of Jesus and other writings that exist in the world.

    Also I believe that the last book as contained in the Bible book of Revelation is not in it’s complete form and that there are components missing that prevent us from understanding this book correctly.

    It is my belief that the Church of the day when deciding what was to be included in the Bible cannon had a hidden agenda and an ideology that was not conducive to the “spirit of truth”, but towards the devil’s interpretation of the truth.

    This is why such doctrines as the “trinity” and “Immortal soul” and the “hellfire” doctrine as explained by mainstream Christianity is very flawed.

    The evangelistic movements of today have not explained it any better today either.

    But believe you me the truth will come bubbling forth as truth must, because by it’s very nature it cannot be hidden under a basket for to long without it being noticed and sooner or later it will be shining from the figurative highest mountain for all to see in it’s shining glory.

    But I do believe that the “Image” as dreamed of by the Babylonian King and interpreted by the prophet Daniel under inspiration of one of Michael’s angels will be brought down to allow the truth of the “Kingdom of God” to come about and to grow into all the earth as a figurative mountain and for true worship to be the venue of the day.

    “Truth” by it’s very nature cannot be hidden forever because it is a fact and is real.

    “Falsehood” on the other-hand will be revealed as false, because it is not real and is false.
    It does not exist in the real world except in the machinations of the Devil and the imaginations of men.


  16. John S. says:

    By way of an explanation of sister Ruth’s experience,I too will share what the Holy Spirit anointing can do.First,the spirit can move you to action,like a restlessness.Remember King Ahasuerus?The Spirit motivated him to get up and search the records,as some nagging spirit told him he had overlooked s’thing important.The H.S. will work in that way sometimes,urging you to think about something,then guide your search to the right passages,and help you see their meaning or application.This was how I personally received the 2 aspects of the rebirth;Born of the water;and born of the spirit.Here’s how it works; 1 You get a burning desire to read all the words of Christ,so I made sure to read in a red letter edition Bible.I wanted to read eveything I could to understand the anointing of the spirit.I also discovered from the Gospel of John and other passages,that Jesus has a spirit too,and its in addition to the Father’s spirit.I also was shown the truth that both Jesus and Jehovah and their spirit comes to dwell inside of you,or that through their spirits this happens.Hence it is not that an invisible force merely directs us to read the Bible,but that this intelligent,powerful caring spirit LIVES inside you throughout the day.As you talk to the Father,and after a few years,I started talking to Jesus,too,when I wanted his spirit on certain occasions,those when I needed special help to keep in a holy condition,as I knew Jesus is very powerful to keep the sanctuary of our bodies clean as a temple of the holy spirit.I am skipping quoting all the scriptures,as most people on this site know the passages I am referring to.(Read the Gospel of John,and 1,2,3 John letters).I realized the Holy Spirit of the Father has abilities ascribed to it,and a gender,and masculine personality attributed to him,as a comforter,teacher,guide,and one who is curious about things,searching around looking at everything,doing work here and there,so spread out in it’s activities that in Revelation its called the 7 spirits of God,And the spirit mentioned is described as a teacher,not just leading us to the scripture that applies.Notice this point to which sister Ruth is seemingly alluding;1 Cor.2:10,11;”but God has revealed it to us (God’s secret wisdom)by his Spirit.The Spirit searches all things,even the deep things of God.”and another at 1John 2:20,”But you have an anointing from the Holy One,and all of you know the truth….vs24..See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you.If it does,you also will remain in the Son and in the Father…vs27…As for you,the anointing you received from Him remains in you,and you do not need anyone to teach you.But as His anointing teaches you about all things,and as that anointing is real,not counterfeit-just as it has taught you,remain in Him.”The scriptures repeat over and over that the anointing means the Spirits of God and Christ come to live inside of you.And once you accept that,and begin to tune them in in your daily activities,prayers,joys,and you start to talk to them all thru the day.You see something marvelous,you thank them;your car breaks down in traffic;you immediately beg them for help;they respond immediately,and help comes to the rescue.You have a family tragedy,they hold your heart and calm it gently to ease the pain,and on and on.Every day that goes by you draw closer to them and this spirit(s)become your very close personal companions.24/7 they are there for you.This is what the anointing does for a person.You are no longer just a human. You are a person with 2 Gods,or maybe 3 if you call or think the spirit is a seperate personality now,as some scriptures seem to indicate,living inside you,and as 1 John says,by extension,you also are living inside of them.We are breaking new ground as anointed ones here,no longer as Jehovah’s Witnesses,but a New Creature.I was a J.W. once,but now am enrolled in the heavens as one of the first-born.This is no fantasy of the mind.There are powers that go along with it.Once you acquire this spirit,things do change..I am not the same as before,not by a long shot.One of the main things,and I’ll shut up now,…you get lit on fire by the spirit.Never have I been so zealous for anything as I am to get up to heaven and start this assignment.It is going to be fantastic,indescribably cool. This is what it feels like to be anointed.This does not come from men,or bestowed by any religion.It is a very personal thing God and Jesus do with you.It cannot be analyzed or defined by earthly terms or knowledge alone,but can only be experienced to believe.John 3:8,and John 14:20-23


  17. Ruth says:

    Brother John s
    Thank you so much.
    Sister Ruth


  18. Willie says:

    In reference to a couple of the comments above, I would like to point out the following: The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and contained no punctuation or vowels. With this information in mind I would like to offer my understanding of Isa. 9:6, which was future from Isaiah’s day. [I am not suggesting this as a translation.] To me it says: “For unto us, the Israelite nation, a child named Jesus will be born into a Jewish family; unto us, God’s chosen people, the Son of God will be given. The government of planet Earth shall be upon his shoulders after his marriage to the Church, who will reign with him. This son, King Jesus, shall be recognized as a “Wonderful Counsellor,” and a “Mighty God” while ruling the earth. He will be understood to be the “Age-lasting Father” until the Kingdom is turned back over to Jehovah (I Cor. 15:28) at the end of the Millennial Age. This son, our promised Messiah, will be called “The Prince of Peace”–the desire of all nations (Hag. 2:7)! That’s the way I understand this Scripture.

    We realize that the New Testament was translated (at least the KJV) by those who believed in the Trinity; thus, it is not at all surprising that it’s translation was influenced by those misconceptions thus representing Jesus as a Creator. How could they present Jesus as being co-equal with God the Father if they admitted that the Father created all things FOR Jesus and WITHOUT HIM [Jesus] IN MIND was not any thing created that was created (Col. 1:16)?
    Over fifty times in the Old Testament we are given scriptures that show that Almighty God the Father–Jehovah–is the sole creator (Isa. 44:24; 45:18). One of these times is quoted in Heb. 1:10. In the Old Testament it reads: “Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands” (Psa. 102:25). See also Rev. 4:11. To get an accurate picture of the plan of God an understanding of both the Old Testament and the New Testament is needed.


  19. Amos says:

    Hi Willie,

    Some interestings thoughts. I’d like you to explain with scriptures, why you say; “The government of planet Earth shall be upon his shoulders after his marriage to the Church, who will reign with him.”
    I know that it’s the common belief that “the bride is the church”, but so far nobody has been able to show me why this is true, from the scriptures, they usually come up with something like….”That’s what it is.” or something similar, but I’ve never been shown from the scriptures that it is true.

    Regarding the trinity & some other docrtines; this is why I now check either/or Messianic Jewish & Aramaic translations. One of the best apart from these that I’ve come across is the KJ3 Literal Translation. This uses the Textus Receptus master text which I believe is one of the best “early modern” texts. Wilsons Diaglot, is also an excellent translation.



  20. Disappointed says:

    Today I was reading the quotes of Mother Theresa. What a wonderful woman. A real example of true christianity. Her whole life was devoted to loving people.Sometimes I feel what does it matter who is wrong or who is right about doctrines, isn’t trying to show the love that Jesus showed the most important thing? None of us are ever going to agree on even the most fundamental things, except that of the love Christ showed to the point of giving his life for mankind.


  21. Willie says:

    Here is the order of events as I understand them, Amos. Without going into chronology let us suppose that the 7000th day began in 1874. Whether or not you agree with it that is a common thought by many, which I personally think can be proved by Dan. 12:12, though I am not good at that sort of thing. I believe that this last thousand year day is the Judgement Day mentioned in Jude 6 for–being last–there are no more days left to be the Judgment Day. Dan. 7:21,22 says: “I beheld, and the same horn (Dan. 8:9-12) made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possesed the kingdom.” This is definitely future and is a confirmation of I Pet. 4:17 “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God; and if it first begin in us [the saints], what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?” See also Rom. 14:10–“…for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.” Since flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God this scripture represents the judgment and death of the saints, the church.
    Psalm 149:5-9 is one of my favorites, “Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron: To execute upon them the judgment written; this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.”
    Everyone would agree that Christ is the head of the Church (I Cor. 11:3; Eph. 5:23; Col. 2:16-19) and surely no one would expect the risen saints to exercise any authority along Judgment Day lines mentioned in the Psalm 149:7-9, until after their marriage to the Bridegroom (Matt. 25:6), the Lamb of God (Rev. 21:9). Who else but the saints would qualify to be the Bride?
    I am aware that Rev. 21:10-27 goes on to describe a city, the new Jerusalem, and since we are informed in Rev. 1:1 that this book is written in signs, why is that so disconcerting? Perhaps others would have preferred a discription of a large flock of pure white sheep. In any case it is certainly NOT literal for I don’t think that a cube shaped city with dimensions of 12,000 furlongs or 1,500 miles would be practical on planet Earth. Since Christ and the bride of 144,000 are spiritual and invisible perhaps this symbolic invisible “city” will be the Bride’s local mansion (John 14:2) while they are doing their Judgment Day work in Earth’s atmosphere. I say this “tongue in cheek” for there are many awsome things indicated by the dimensions of this symbolic city which I won’t go into. Christ will be the King and the Bride will be the Queen while assisting in the restoration of all that was lost when Adam sinned as we are told in Acts 3:19-21. Since “God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began” concerning “the times of restitution all all things,” I suppose that these Old Testament prophecies were not JUST FOR THE DAYS WHEN THEY WERE WRITTEN as some contend. Isa. 26:9 reads, “…for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.” That’s the whole purpose of the Judgment Day and that’s a good place to stop.
    I have an Aramaic New Testament and a couple of Wilson’s Diaglotts, but I have never seen a KJ3 Literal Translation. It sounds interesting.


  22. Willie says:

    Dear Disappointed, This will possibly make you disappointed in Mother Teresa. Apparently you have not heard of the letters of Mother Teresa which spanned decades and came to light after her death. She had requested and expected that they would be destroyed. In the book, “Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light” there is a compilation of some of these letters which she wrote to friends, superiors, and confessors which expose the doubts that she had. The Catholic Church spins these in the best possible light since they have already made her a saint. Here is one of the things that she wrote: “Where I try to raise my thoughts to heaven, there is such convincing emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives and hurt my very soul. Love–the word–it brings nothing.” The heading was: “Personal letters show now-sainted Mother Teresa was an atheist.” God only knows.


  23. John S. says:

    Brother Willie, If you feel you want to comment to the little sheep like that,bear in mind who’s sheep you’re talking to;Matt.18:6 We enjoy your comments and views very much,and your faith is strong,that’s good.Others,though are hurting,and looking around humbly opening their hearts to other depressed souls who have been beat down by this life.And when it comes to our sisters,sometimes out of respect,another mature sister would be better to give any imagined advice,as the sisters have had enough from overbearing elders,abusive husbands,etc.Just a thought,but be careful friend.


  24. confused says:

    I am completely in a state of not understanding all these comments about prophecy. Will Jehovah hold it against us if we don’t nail all these prophecies down?


    • andrew says:

      No he won’t, confused. Please understand that prophecy along with a good deal of doctrine and theology are opinions. I truly doubt that 2 people on this site would agree on all doctrine and prophecy.

      Start with the basics. Read the bible with an open mind and put into practice what you learn. I always encourage people to start with the Sermon on the Mount.

      I would encourage you to read the bible through once and the New testament a few times before you even start paying attention to what other peoples opinions are on prophecy and doctrine.

      Hope this helps


  25. confused says:

    Thank you my brother, I get so worked up about “not getting things right or nailed down” since fading away. As a witness, there was so much focus on this prophecy or that prophecy and 1st, 2nd fulfillment and on and on, it took any joy I had from serving Jehovah. I guess that FEAR and GUILT still has a grip on me.


  26. John S. says:

    May I second the motion of dear brother Andrew and what a blessing to get the comfort and encouragement from such dear and experienced ones in the faith,like our sister Ruth.Thank you both.Just a word in response to these prophesy-searchers,if I may to sister confused and any others online who see our conversations batting back and forth,sparks a’flyin’;This we do in an effort to figure out the meaning of the things Peter said are “hard to understand”,..”Paul,according to the wisdom given him also wrote you speaking as he does about these things also he does in all his letters .In them however,are some things hard to understand,which the untaught and unsteady are twisting as they do also the rest of the scriptures to their own destruction.”2 Pet.3:16.That’s exactly why we are talking about these things most the time,we’re trying to understand what they mean.At times sparks fly,as the Proverbs says they would.(Prov.27:17- iron wheel against iron will spark )I know the only way we can dig out the truth is to discuss it together,and possibly someone has a revelation on that passage,or sees it in a light we didn’t,throwing “light” onto the subject.As we are not able to get face-to-face at this time,it’s the best we can do.But there is a time to speak and a time to keep quiet,so it works best,I suppose to present what you feel is accurate,with supporting proofs,then each one does the same.Maybe 2 or 3 persons will get the same thought about it,and that would be good.But ultimately,I want the Lord’s voice on that particular passage if available,as the Word of God is the final authority here.Please don’t be stumbled by the apparent arguing process,even if at times it appears to get heated up.(Luke 22:24)In our imperfect state,persons sometimes take offense at words,or misunderstand the nature of the comment.Also hurt feelings,or pride gets bruised.This is also to be expected,as we are imperfect people.Let these discussions take place in a kind and loving manner,as we should not be stumbling others with our bad manners,or unreasonable approach to the difficult interpretations we seek.I’m sorry for my blunt,coarse,at times- judgemental comments,brothers and sisters,I will attempt to tone down,and be more reasonable,while trying to decipher together with you the sayings of everlasting life.All of us will benefit if we can get to the bottom of the questions we are trying to answer,as we were not allowed to even talk about these things when we were in W.T.,let alone argue definitions.What a privilege we have here,and possibly think tanks like this world-wide will get blessed by the Holy Spirit with the correct answer.Thanks again Andrew and the others,JJ,Greybeard,and Cedars for your research and initiative to start and promote this cause.May the Holy Spirit grace this sight.Do I hear an amen?


    • andrew says:

      Amen, John S. thanks for recognizing the far greater importance of love and mutual respect over being right on some doctrinal issue.


      • Amos says:

        Another Amen from me also John S.

        I see this as a mark of christian maturity to be able to discuss & bounce thoughts off each other. I do see that by doing this, it also allows the Holy Spirit to direct our thoughts into the scriptures for a clearer understanding of the topics under discussion. Very well said.



  27. Ruth says:

    My dear broth john S.
    Oh my goodness. What can I say but your right!
    Go for it boys. It is so enjoyable to have you here john S

    I can see everyone! well just about everyone really loves you.
    Good on you mate!
    sister Ruth.

    Good on you mate!
    Sister Ruth.


  28. John S. says:

    Well ok,if you insist,you asked for it.(ha)o.k….what’s the next topic bros?


  29. skyrainbow says:

    ‘Brother’ Cedars is an important instrument of Gog of Magog who is preparing his last attack on Jehovah’s people. Read in Ezechiel 38:22,23 what Jehovah will do with ‘Satan and his bands and the many people that will be with him’.


    • miscreant droid says:

      Poor Skyrainbow, perhaps the only way you can feel love for your brethren at the KH is by venting your hatred at the bible students here.
      I remember getting a shepherding call from an elder once who was a preaching machine of the highest quality, just like you. He never let up on his devotion to the GB and my responsibility to do the same. He didn’t have any use for his ears though. My concerns were merely countered with “you’re wrong” and then another string of cliches. Two months later, he was disfellowshipped. Please, skyrainbow, don’t forget to use the ‘reasoning of a sound mind’, lest you end up on the other side of the fence. Militant loyalty will not protect you from the human condition of sin any more than it protected the elder who came to correct me.


Leave a Reply

Website Apps