The Watchtower Society makes the claim that sonship is offered at this time only to a few thousand Christians. It is theorized that the rest only are offered friendship to God on the basis of their association with the sons of God. Is this true?

I would encourage all readers to carefully evaluate Romans chap. 8. This chapter lets us know that there are only 2 categories of individuals: (1)those in accord with the flesh and (2) those in accord with the spirit. Verse 8 (NWT) says “So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.”

Obviously no true Christian falls in category 1, that is to say he is not in accord with the flesh. It is also obvious then true Christians must be in accord with the spirit. Let’s read verse 9 “However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him.”

Now we see that God’s spirit dwells in all true Christians. And if one does not have this spirit he does not belong to Christ. Vs. 14-17 reads “For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons15 For YOU did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but YOU received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: “Abba, Father!” 16 The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children17 If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.”

It is quite clear, God’s sons are those who do not walk in accord with the flesh. This is the only relationship to God that is being offered to humans. There are only 2 groups of humans: (1)God’s sons (and daughters) (2) those who walk in accord with the flesh and do not please God. In which group are we? If we claim to be Christian certainly we would want to be in the first group. There is no 3rd group of associates of the sons of God. And as God’s children all Christians have the hope of being heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ! Gal. 3:26 “26 YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus.”

John 1:12 – “However, as many as did receive him, to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name”  The offer of sonship is not limited to a literal number of 144000 Christians throughout all of history. No, as many receive Christ and exercise faith in him are God’s children. The very fact that we address God as our Father should indicate that we are His sons.

The New Testament was written not for only a few thousand individuals but for all God’s sons who are all in the New Covenant. A covenant is an agreement or contract. Just as in any contract, the only ones subject to the restriction, rules, as well as benefits are those participants of the contract. For instance, suppose a landlord and a renter enter into an agreement or contract (covenant). The landlord agrees to supply a house and keep up with any major maintenance. The renter agrees to pay rent each month, not mistreat the house, and do minor upkeep. They sign the agreement which says that all the responsibilities and benefits (renter can live in house and landlord receives rent check) are of those 2 parties and no one else. The neighbors or the friends of the renter or landlord have nothing whatsoever to do with the agreement.

The New Covenant is like that contract. All responsibilities and benefits go to the parties involved. Jer. 31: 33,34 – “For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.”34 “And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”

So the members of the New Covenant would: (1) have God’s law written on their hearts, (2) be God’s people and have a special relationship with Him, (3) be forgiven of their sins.

The law written on our hearts is principally the law of love (Rom. 13:10). We also find other guides of conduct such as Paul’s words at 1 Cor. 6:9,10. Anyone not a part of the New Covenant has no obligation to abide by its responsibilities nor would they receive any benefits from it.

It is truly amazing that the Society has created a group of Christians called the “great crowd” of “other sheep” that are under the obligation to keep all the responsibilities of the NC but they receive none of the benefits, nor are they supposedly even part of the NC nor are they sons of God. It would be like saying to the renter that he has to pay rent but doesn’t get to live in the house. The “great crowd” have been kept in spiritual orphanhood. The facts show that the only relationship offered to Christians is one of sonship as part of the New Covenant. There is no other relationship with God to aspire to. If we deny being part of the New Covenant we are in effect saying “God’s law is not written on my heart nor am I part of God’s people and I am not forgiven of my sins”! Is this something we want to say?

In fact we can call each other brother and sister because we are sons and daughters of the same Father, Jehovah God. It “blows my mind” when I think of what is being offered to us, and when I think of the love that our Father, Jehovah and our Master, Jesus have for us. Let us never forsake this precious relationship.




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29 Comments on Are All Christians Sons of God?

  1. LonelySheep says:

    Andrew, just YESTERDAY I posted the same question to a long time friend who used to be a P.O of a congregation.

    I made the same point as you. Interestingly, he thinks we should take the bread, but not the wine!! Work that one out??

    No, you are spot on as far as I see. Very good illustration. Thank you.

    Historically in Gods house, going right back to the patriarchs and then into Moses time, even slaves and the alien resident associated with Gods servants were governed by the same laws and partook of any ceremonies commanded by God (see Exodus 12:43-51;Gen 17:25-27). This sets the pattern for today. One LAW, ONE people ONE covenant.

    Furthermore, the promise for the nation to be a nation of Kings and Priests was not just for a small few, but was open to all(Ex 19:6). Thus ANYBODY from the nation had the POTENTIAL to be a chosen ‘one’, ie to rule in heaven. With the introduction of Gentiles into Gods promise/family, God would choose from the millions of Christians (that would now be in the New Covenant) to be his SPIRITUAL sons in heaven, as opposed to his FLESHLY sons on earth. Like Adam, these fleshly sons would also be called his Sons by virtue of the New Covenant. And like Adam, they need not entertain any hope to go to heaven.

    As for the so-called Great Crowd you mentioned, that does not even exist now. Why not? Well the angel in Revelation (7:14) said the Great Crowd COME THROUGH the Great Tribulation. Since the GT has not started as yet, there cannot be a Great Crowd. At the best, JW’s can only say we (like the rest of mankind) have the POTENTIAL to be of the GC. In the same way a cake is not a cake until it is baked, even if all the ingredients are assembled, prepared and put into a baking tin.It has to go into the oven, then it is a cake. We have to make it through the GT to be part of the GC.

    Finally, what are the implications of us recognizing that the NC is for all who call themselves Christians? Is it not to partake in the emblems? Will any on this blog, will you Andrew be partaking this year?


  2. andrew says:

    Thanks Lonelysheep for your thoughts on the matter.
    I was using the term great crowd as the Society uses it. I also think only those Christians living at the time of the Great Tribulation are part of the great crowd.

    I will be partaking of the emblems at home. Partaking at the KH for most JWs means that you are proclaiming yourself part of an elite christian group.


    • LonelySheep says:

      Taking the emblems privately was what a Brother and I were thinking of doing.

      But…… I’m scared.

      I don’t want to be presumptuous, but the WT has indoctrinated me sufficiently enough to think twice EVEN though you have made the argument that I agree with. Personally I might give it a miss this year and do it next year.


  3. greybeard says:

    Thank you Andrew,

    This is another very good post. It makes you think and analyze yourself. Well at least it made me think and question myself. I suffer from low self esteem and sometimes I just don’t know what to think. Your statement, “that there are only 2 categories of individuals: (1) those in accord with the flesh and (2) those in accord with the spirit. Verse 8 (NWT) says “So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.” Makes me ask myself what kind of man I really am?

    I have had to fight fleshly desires all my life. I still fight them. Sometimes I feel like I am loosing because this fight don’t end. I get down about it. Lets face it, women are beautiful and I’m more like king david than the Apostle Paul and I doubt it if I come within a mile to Jesus.

    Paul’s words “miserable man that I am, who will save me from this body undergoing this death” give me some comfort but not enough. He also said, “with my body I am a slave to sin’s law but with my mind to Gods.” So I like to think he might have had strong desires too that he was fighting. I don’t know. I’m not trying to blame my body but the body has needs and cravings that I believe are natural and keep the population up. I wish I was out of this body.

    However, it is scriptures like the ones you are pointing out here that lead me to believe there might not be any hope for me being a real true christian. I still think God will save me and let me continue to grow spiritually and snap my body into submission but that might take 1000 years. I don’t know. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not going out on my wife or anything like that but I fight the thought and sometimes I stumble in what my eyes look at and that makes me feel unworthy.

    Do you understand? I don’t think I will ever feel worthy.
    Your brother,


    • andrew says:

      We can all identify GB with the struggle of doing what is right. The very fact that you are struggling and just haven’t given up shows you are on the right path.


    • Jayme says:

      Dear Bro. Greybeard,

      I can identify and know how depressing it can be. Bro, your not alone! Men of God have been struggling with the flesh since the beginning. In 1 Cor 10:13 we can see that these things which we struggle with are common to all men.The key is you ARE “struggling”, not just giving it free reign.

      I don’t think any of us ever feel worthy, there’s no way we could ever be worthy for then we would have reason to boast. But I know we can truly feel loved and forgiven and freed! The beautiful gift of being declared righteous thru faith in Christ is what accomplishes this. I know it is hard to accept this when we are so aware of our deficiencies, but this is were faith really comes in. Our Father has desired it to be this way so that all glory may go to Him and that His grace and mercy may triumph over sin and death.

      The longer I live the more I am aware of my complete inability to accomplish anything apart from Him. This also goes for fighting the flesh. In my own power, as just a person of inherited sin, I dont ever do very well trying to fight sin. I only make any headway at all thru prayer and by allowing His Spirit to work.

      Brother, I have read your posts since the start of this board and if you are not one who has his heart on the things of the Spirit, then I don’t know who is. I leave you with one last scripture that helps keep me comforted when I get so frustrated with myself, 1John 3:18-24 :

      18 Little children, let us love, neither in word nor with the tongue, but in deed and truth.
      19 By this we shall know that we originate with the truth, and we shall assure our hearts before him 20 as regards whatever our hearts may condemn us in, because God is greater than our hearts and knows all things. 21 Beloved ones, if [our] hearts do not condemn [us], we have freeness of speech toward God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we are observing his commandments and are doing the things that are pleasing in his eyes. 23 Indeed, this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and be loving one another, just as he gave us commandment. 24 Moreover, he who observes his commandments remains in union with him, and he in union with such one; and by this we gain the knowledge that he is remaining in union with us, owing to the spirit which he gave us.

      As John says, indeed this is our Fathers commandment, that we have faith in Christ and love one another. Brother, if your heart is in agreement with these things then God is in union with you and you have freeness of speech toward Him. Tho your heart condemns you, He does not for He is greater than your heart and He loves you. :)


  4. Jayme says:

    Hey Andrew, thanks for sharing your thought on this most important subject! Did you by chance check out the June 15 2011 WT? I just recently did and it has an article which addresses the very subject. I have literally endured several sleepless nights over it, its just so frustrating! I just can’t accept the WT understanding on this, to do so would really bother my conscience. The Bible is so clear. Its just so sad that most everyone is kept so confused about one of the most important things in scripture. You mentioned being kept in “spiritual orphanhood” and that is so true, I have felt like that my whole life until I realized the full meaning of the New Covenant and what it really accomplishes. Yes, it truely “blows my mind” too!! I will go to the memorial this year at the Kingdom Hall as always but will not partake there. I partook for the first time last year, privately at home. This year I plan to do the same or maybe together with a few like minded ones.

    Here is a link to a youtube video about the study article in the June 15 2011 WT:

    And here is a song that I have found encouraging, about the awsome privlege of being “Children of God”:

    Your brother,


  5. Dennis says:

    Hello Brother Andrew,

    While I agree with the premise of your article (and did enjoy it very much) I don’t see Jn. 1:12 as supporting your position (maybe I’m missing something). You said, “John 1:12 – “However, as many as did receive him, to them he gave authority to become God’s children, because they were exercising faith in his name”  The offer of sonship is not limited to a literal number of 144000 Christians throughout all of history. No, as many receive Christ and exercise faith in him are God’s children”.

    Backing up to John 1:11 show’s that Jesus was talking about the Jews specifically.
    11 He came to his own (the lost sheep of Israel), and his own people (those in the Jewish sheepfold) did not receive him. 12 But to all who did receive him (those Jews that did accept him as Messiah), who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

    Your Brother,


    • Dennis says:

      You know Andrew, I just read vs. 12 again and I can see how it could apply as you’ve stated. I actually can see that it could go either way. Maybe I’m not seeing something. What am I missing?



    • andrew says:

      Dennis you’re right that the first ones this special sonship was opened up to were the lost sheep of Israel, but of course extended out to the Gentiles with Cornelius. There was no limit to the amount of Jews that could have accepted Jesus and been born again, nor is there any limit to the number of gentiles that could do so.


  6. greybeard says:

    Thank you Jayme and Andrew for your kind words. thanks Dennis for the e-mail.
    Your brother,


  7. LonelySheep says:

    Okay guys, as I’ve said before I totally agree with what Andrew has written. I have even expressed similar sentiments on e-Watchmans site.

    However, we have a slight ‘problem’ in defending our idea.

    In the July 15, 2011 WT Study Ed, paragraph 14 links the act of becoming a son of God,to becoming a King alongside Jesus in heaven. This is done very subtly, because they quote Rom 5:17 from the NWT and then immediately we are asked to read Luke 22:28-30 where Jesus makes a promise for Kingdom to his apostles.

    Now, according to the rendering in the NWT, Rom 5:17 does indeed seem to be making the point that recipients of Christ’s kindness are indeed to be kings. However I think the GB are using a sleight of hand here. I’ve got my reasons why I think they are being mischievousness in the use of Romans in this way, but I would like to hear what you guys think. How would you refute their reasoning? Any takers?


    • LonelySheep says:

      Sorry chaps, that should be June 15th Watchtower, under the heading
      God Recommends His Love to Us – see para 14 and 15


    • Anonymous says:

      Hello Lonleysheep,

      Yes, thats the article which I recently went over too. I do believe that they are being vague and using, as you say, a “sleight of hand”. I’ve thought on this for a long time and I am pretty confident that what we have presented thru scripture is something of a 2 step procedure. First, one has to come into the new covenant thru faith in Christ. All can do this, and I feel this would include partaking of the emblems. Number 2 is, now that one has taken step number 1 they can now be considered as possible candidates who may be chosen to join the ranks of the limited number who will rule with Christ. All things must be done in order. We start by being reconciled to God and declared righteous then we might be chosen to rule. The salvation is a gift open to all, the ruling is a reward limited to some. I know some will disagree, and thats ok, but this is where I stand for now. There’s alot of scriptures to consider on this, a few which I find key. Maybe we could touch on some, but I gotta go to work so I’ll be back later. Bye.


    • andrew says:

      Lonelysheep, my belief is that all Christians have the heavenly hope (see post What is a Christians Hope? Heaven or Earth?
      I also believe the 144000 is the same group as the great crowd. (see post The Pure Language and the 144000)
      These of course are only my opinions on the matter. How will Christians rule as kings? That remains to be seen. Obviously some will have more roles of more importance. My belief is they will rule over the many survivors of Armageddon. Some believe this “reigning as kings” happens right now (see R. Franz book In Search of Christian Freedom pgs 545-548)


    • Jayme says:

      I would first present for consideration that in Luke 22 there are 2 differant covenants mentioned. The first,NC, is for forgivness of sins and reconciliation to God. The second, the Kingdom Covenant is offered to those from the NC who have, as Jesus says “stuck with me in my trials”. In Pauls words at Rom 8:17 he says something very similar to what he says at Rom. 5:17 but adds a qualifier…”provided we suffer together”. In looking at Rom 8:17, I propose that it firstly speaks of all those in the NC as becoming children and heirs of God. Then in the later part it goes on to also speak of the Kingdom Covenant when it speaks of those who “suffer together” being “joint heirs with Christ”. It reminds me alot of the similar words used by Jesus at Luke 22:28-30 when he spoke of the Kingdom Covenant. There he states that those brought into the Kingdom Covenant would be included in a special covenant that he to was a party to or “heir” to from the Father, thus making them “joint heirs with Christ”. He also descibes how these ones “stuck with me in my trials” or you could say “suffered together”. Also see Rev 14:4 and Rev. 6:9-11. Also consider the ones who are said to “conquer” in the first 3 chapters of Rev.


  8. LonelySheep says:

    Andrew, I was with you until your last post :-)

    I agree that we all become sons of God, by virtue of the NC but like Anonymous my understanding is that from a single group Jah draws those that will become kings. However since none of us can be sure at this time, our differing opinions are not important for salvation,therefore not a show stopper for me. We are still brothers.

    As for the article I mentioned, the Society are being devious. Firstly lets consider what they have said in paragraphs 14&15. It reads:

    Think what a gift it is for the Almighty
    to forgive the sin a person inherited as well
    as the wrongs he committed! You could not
    count how many sins individuals committed
    before becoming Christians; yet, on the
    basis of the ransom, God can forgive those
    sins. Paul wrote: “The gift resulted from
    many trespasses in a declaration of righteousness.”
    (Rom. 5:16) The apostles and
    others receiving this loving gift (being declared
    righteous) would have to continue to
    worship the true God in faith.Withwhat future
    reward? “Those who receive the abundance
    of the undeserved kindness and of
    the free gift of righteousness [will] rule as
    kings in life through the one person, Jesus
    Christ.” Indeed, the gift of righteousness
    works in the opposite direction. The gift
    has life as its outcome.—Rom. 5:17; read
    Luke 22:28-30.
    15 Those receiving that gift, being declared
    righteous, become God’s spiritual
    sons. As joint heirs with Christ, they have
    the prospect of being resurrected to heaven
    as actual spirit sons to “rule as kings” with
    Jesus Christ

    Notice the quote from Romans? They pick it up half way through the verse and then get you to read Luke 22. Now if you are not careful, when the passage is read like this, a clear suggestion is made that Romans is about individuals becoming kings by virtue of Jesus’ sacrifice; and since the kingship is limited to 144,000 then only the 144,000 benefit directly from Jesus’ sacrifice. The deal is then sealed by linking this scripture with Luke 22:28-30.

    They nearly got me….BUT…..

    If you look at the beginning of the verse and the rest of the chapter it clear that Paul is contrasting how death ruled as king, but since the sacrifice of Jesus, Life would rule as King, NOT that those who receive the benefit of Jesus’ sacrifice would rule as Kings.

    Also if you look at other bible translations, most do not translate Romans 5:17 as the NWT.

    Let compare different translations render Romans 5:17

    New World Translation
    For if by the trespass of the one [man] death ruled as king through that one, much more will those who receive the abundance of the undeserved kindness and of the free gift of righteousness rule as kings in life through the one [person], Jesus Christ.

    Youngs Literal Translation
    for if by the offence of the one the death did reign through the one, much more those, who the abundance of the grace and of the free gift of the righteousness are receiving, in life shall reign through the one–Jesus Christ.

    New Living Translation
    For the sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over many. But even greater is God’s wonderful grace and his gift of righteousness, for all who receive it will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ

    Furthermore, if you look at the original Greek, king is not used in this verse at all. Admittedly some other translations phrase the verse in a similar way to the NWT, but the majority do not and certainly there is no suggestion that those who receive this gift become kings. Look at the link for a transliteration (

    I think the Society are guilty for being intellectually dishonest and playing footloose with the scriptures.


    • Jayme says:

      Thanks, LonleySheep, for bringing out these important points concerning Rom 5:17. What you explained fits well with the rest of the chapter and with the origional greek. I really appreciate your sharing your research with us! :)

      You said:
      “If you look at the beginning of the verse and the rest of the chapter it clear that Paul is contrasting how death ruled as king, but since the sacrifice of Jesus, Life would rule as King, NOT that those who receive the benefit of Jesus’ sacrifice would rule as Kings.”

      I agree!


  9. bruceguth says:

    The Apostle Paul corresponded his inspired words to those of Jesus when he wrote at 1 Corinthians 4:2, “…what is looked for in stewards (slaves) is for a man to be found faithful.” And so he continued to explain that the faithful slave should “…not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God” (v5).

    The first 13 verses of 1 Corinthians 4 correspond nicely with Matthew’s record (24:45-51) and Luke’s record (12:40-48) where Jesus was speaking specifically to 4 of his early apostles. This was on the illustration of the faithful and discreet (or variously rendered “wise”, “sensible”) steward.

    One thing is sure here, by these verses. (It is intended that you read them over carefully as you read this post.) The Lord will judge this when He comes, so it is left to any who will be wise, discreet, and faithful, to receive the appropriate reward at His arrival. Read carefully without adding anything into it, since we don’t want to go beyond the (inspired) things that are written, Luke 12:40-48. As you read, may the Spirit of Jesus help you.

    And I am suggesting that on the subject of this thread we are on, to read Romans 8:14-17, Galatians 4:1-7, Ephesians 4:1-6. It will be worthwhile.

    Brotherly love to you,


  10. belongingtojah says:

    What an interest variation of thoughts.
    Please consider this reasonging on scripture.
    While everyone who exercises faith in the only-begotten Son of God gets eternal life – not all will be spending that eternity in the same place – or doing the same things.
    As example: Some will be raised up in the first ressurection – be taken to heaven along with their brother left remaing alive – these ones will be given uncoruptableness and immortality just as Jesus was when he was raised up. They will be made to be Kings and Preists and rule with Christ for the Thousand Years. That is the destiny of these Sons of God. There are Sons of God whom will be willing workers on the earth making it into Jehovah Paridise that he originally intended. That is the destiny of these Sons of God. Everlasting life is a wonderful gift from our Father – and as his Son’s we should be happy to enjoy spending it where ever He decides we should.
    It is similar for Jehovah’s heavenly spirit creatures – they all have their jobs and positions that they rejoice in – variety of positions and task’s yet all spirit Son’s of God


  11. DanielB says:

    This sounds right to me.

    Daniel or,
    (“bruceguth”,above post)


  12. jads says:

    One question I like to ask born-agains and ex-jws is why did the disciples of Jesus ask him was he “restoring the kingdom to Isarel” if they believed that “all” believers go to heaven? Obviously they must have thought of a paradise earth to some degree maybe they did not totally understand all that Jesus taught them or they would have asked Jesus “Lord are you taking us up to heaven at this time.” Born Agains have tried to explain away this passage by saying that Jesus taught them the correct way but they still was “engrained” by the Mosaic traditions and possibly had an unclear picture of what being born again really meant. The born agains and ex-jws will hang themselves here because that would mean that Jesus was using disciples that was teaching some falsehoods concerning his message. And if this was the case Why did Jesus not reject or reprove them severely for this? Is this not the same thing that born-agains accuse JW’s of in that they are teaching falsehoods? If Jesus had of rejected his disciples because they had wrong viewpoints his message would have died 2000 years ago. While I have trouble with JW’s and some of their changing viewpoints in a nutshell they have not really changed on the vital doctrines or beliefs such as trinity, hellfire, soul, etc;


  13. andrew says:

    Again doctrinal beliefs are not JWs greatest weakness. I think it is following men not Jesus. The teaching that only JWs are God’s people does them a great disservice. It causes them to reject their brothers who are of other denominations and foments self-righteousness and a judgmental attitude.

    That being said we find these attitudes in members of all the different churches. My point is JWs are no better nor any worse than other Christians.


  14. JWB says:

    jads, I understand what you are saying. I personally believe that if one is said to be a ‘king and priest’ then this means there must be recipients of the actions of rulership and service. We know the scriptures tell us that Christ would rule IN THE MIDST of his enemies, which makes me think there is at least some period that has reference to this world in which we live, since all spirit enemies have been cast out of heaven. Personally, I don’t believe everyone will go to heaven. I believe that one of the main reasons Jesus came to the earth at the specific time he did was to prepare for the adminstration of his future kingdom by selecting and training candidates to be co-rulers with him.

    I think a lot of misunderstanding of the Christian Greek scriptures happens because of attempts to take the writings out of context. I believe that a lot of what is contained in those scriptures has reference only to that group of people who would take on the role of ‘kings and priests’. That does not mean that we in the modern age cannot benefit from those writings, nor that we cannot become footstep followers of Christ. However, we must remember the context.

    Daniel tells us that the “son of man”, which we understand to mean Jesus Christ, was given “dominion” by the “ancient of days, which we understand to mean our Heavenly Father. The purpose of that “dominion” was so that all the peoples, nations and language groups might serve him (Jesus). Many of us have no internal sense of wanting to go to heaven, which if we are to understand the scriptures correctly, we would have most assuredly if we were “begotten of the spririt”. Where then does that leave those of us in that situation? Is there no hope for us then?

    I might also add that the Jewish nation was expecting the future blessings of God to be directed towards the earth. Those foretold future blessings were not considered to reside in heaven, as I understand it. At Genesis 49:10 we see this prophecy uttered: “The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor the ruler’s staff from between his feet, until Shiloh comes, and to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.” The Jewish hope was in the manifestation of a Messiah who would rule the earth. There seems to be no indication of belief in a mass exodus to heaven.


    • Amos says:


      We are both in agreement concerning the destiny of those who are anointed brothers of Christ.
      I very firmly believe, through my independant studies, that our portion shall be on the earth. I also believe that our Lord WILL return as a visible “King Priest” in the likeness of Melchizedeck. We, as His brothers, will serve as a “Kingdom of Priests” in HIS kingdom.

      I’m away from home at the present time, so cannot give more details at present.

      Keep up the good work.


  15. Anonymous says:

    Have you seen this website


  16. Reader says:

    Dear All;
    As they say; ‘be careful what you wish for’…..
    Son-ship of God is an approximation to our experience as humans.
    To go too far can be a mistake and definitive clarity may be something we must await.
    [We could say an illustration of the Heavenly is ‘proxy logic’.]

    Son-ship of God would imply similar responsibilities and duty etc., between both parties as would be seen on Earth.
    I would suggest son-ship of God to mean in the first place; direct creations of individuals in God’s Image.
    Thus Angelic life and Adam were Sons of God [in the first case].
    But that did not fully work out. It may be that God might have extended a son-ship to some of Adam’s Offspring, but we don’t know.
    ——So some things must differ, and God may choose —-
    Jesus is born to Mary;
    -The first Human since Adam with a direct son-ship.
    -The human race has a member with Son-ship.
    However Jesus was on a mission, and the ‘beget’ bit has a spiritual component, issues of the personal glory of God and His Creator rights and duties are implied and restoration of all things.
    At the time Jesus is literally the Only begotten Son [of God] of/within Mankind and due to the spiritual component of Angels also.
    This ‘spirit begets’ is a new component, a greater son-ship sharing in God.
    Later the Spirit begets more of those chosen ones. But their flesh is not reborn only the person [spirit].

    My readers can add the verses, but I think putting the time-line in helps perspective?
    By the way son-ship here includes automatic conscription to the Heavenly Armies.
    You can be as wise as Daniel, as faithful as Job, as glorious as David and still not be a Son Of God among the chosen ones.

    Its an Invitation only an arbitrary choice of God..

    And the Bride of Christ, when she gets to the house, one thousand years of cleaning up!!!

    Some things don’t change.

    Besides whatever the reward, we will not deserve it.

    ps; our logic on this matter may be led by which we are


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