dad-sonI received a message some months back from a non-JW man we will call Jim. We exchanged several emails and later spoke on the phone. Below is a summary of our discussions:


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FROM: Jim Smith
TO: JWStruggle
DATE: 10/4/2012

Hello,

I am not and never have been a JW or in anyway associated with the WBTS. In summary, my now exwife (was not a JW at that time) met, had an affair with a married JW, divorced me and married him. She is now raising our two children as JW’s. I consider myself and and our children as collateral damage to this organization and am arming myself with knowledge so I can show my children TTATT.

I will wait for your reply,
Thank you,
Jim Smith

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FROM: Eric
TO: Jim
DATE: 10/4/2012

I am so sorry about your situation and want to help in any way that I can. I have recently been divorced by my JW wife and we have two children, 9 and 12. They are rapidly being deprogrammed by me, and this has caused my ex-wife a lot of consternation. In fact we are preparing to celebrate my youngest one’s 10th birthday party this month. It will be her first, and she is very excited about it to say the least!

Take care Jim, and don’t hesitate to ask questions and do research into this destructive religion. Many are available to help you- I’m one of them! The folks here, and on our forum would be happy to help.

God Bless,
Eric Bottorff, aka JJ

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FROM: Jim Smith
TO: JWStruggle
DATE: 10/15/2012

Thank you for your thoughts and encouragement. I do appreciate your willingness to help. I am sure I will have questions. My children are close in age to yours. They are 11 and 13. I am very interested in how you are going about “deprogramming” your children.

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FROM: Jim Smith
TO: JWStruggle
DATE: 11/4/2012

Hello Eric,

You may remember me from previous emails.

I am the father of two children (ages 11 and 13) whose mother converted to WT theology, then divorced me and married the JW she was having an affair. That happened 10 years ago. I know you have extensive knowledge with the WT and are also “deprogramming” your children. I am hoping you can help me with my challenge in doing the same.

1. Can you tell me how you are going about deprogramming your children? I admit I am looking for that magic bullet but it appears there is none. So, how are you doing this?

2. I do a great deal of research on the WT history and their changing doctrines. How can I get copy of the WT library?

3. When you were recording your trial, you mentioned a video camera. Can you tell me where to get this?

Interestingly, I am an autotransfusionist. My job is to run the cell saver machine during surgery to replace the patients lost blood. This procedure is used frequently with the JW population. Would you like to know more about this?

Thank you in advance for any information you can give me. Please feel free to contact me anytime. I am including my cell number if you would like to chat.

Jim Smith [number removed]

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FROM: Eric
TO: Jim
DATE: 11/9/2012

Jim

I consider your situation to be very important and as a fellow father of two girls 10 and 12 I feel for you.

Deprogramming them is possible it just takes time. One thing I am doing is exposing them to a fun non-denominational church. This way they are making friends with other kids their age and seeing that worship does not have to be rigid, formal, and dull like it is at the Kingdom Hall.

Also, we have a Bible study each weekend they get to stay with me and we go over topics and I try to share Christ and also have debunked some JW myths for them such as how birthdays are allegedly pagan and worldly, etc.

I plan to tackle blood transfusions and “bigger topics” in the near future. We have already discussed the arrogance of thinking they are the only ones that will be saved and I asked if they really thought that God was going to destroy 7 billion men women and children at Armageddon soon as the WT teaches.

I want to call you when I have time! Take care my friend and let’s confer more. Perhaps you can tell me more about your current background and beliefs, etc. Also more about your kids!

In Christ,
Eric

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Jim and I chatted on the phone and exchanged some ideas. He filled me in on more of the details of his situation. Recently he sent me some good news:
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FROM: Jim Smith
TO: JWStruggle
DATE: 2/9/2013

Hello Eric,

I thought you would be interested in a struggle I just completed.

My ex-wife filed a motion for contempt against me last month. She claimed I violated the parenting plan by disparaging her religion when the children were with me. She has been collecting snippets of information on me over the last two years. This information was attained mostly through her questioning the children on what they do or talk about when with me. She also found a conversation I was having in an chat room with an individual where I was describing the difficulty of talking with my children without disparaging her choice of beliefs. In addition, she felt some of out email conversations and websites I visited were also in question. Yours was one of them.

After the judge listened to both sides, I was found not guilty of contempt. The judge did so because we have something called freedom of religion in our country and I was exercising my right to be informed as well as my children.

There is more to this story and if you would like to chat with me about it at sometime, let’s set a time that we both are free.

BTW, how can I get the bracelet “TTATT”?

Thank you for our earlier chat and your courage to post your struggle on you tube. Your information is valuable not only to exjw’s, jw’s wanting to leave, but also to those of us I categorize as “collateral damage” of this organization.

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FROM: Eric
TO: Jim
DATE: 2/10/2013

Jim this account is incredible. Thank you for relating it to me. Bravo for continuing to fight for your children’s freedom from the WT!

I’d be happy to send you a bracelet- just click on “Bracelet” located at the top of the JWS website. There you will find a form to type in your name and address.

Would it be alright if I post this latest chapter in your struggle on the site? I feel it would be encouraging to many.

With Kind Regards,
Eric

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For all of those fathers, mothers, and others that have loved ones caught up in the Jehovah’s Witness movement and have been hurt and impacted due to “collateral damage”, this prayer is for you:


God in heaven we know you always hear us and you see all the suffering that goes on in our lives. Thank you for loving us first by giving us life and sending your Son to save us. Be with Jim in his struggle to liberate the minds of his children, and be with all the other fathers and mothers that are fighting to rescue their children from the mind control of the Watchtower. Help us show positivity and love to all that are ignorant of TTATT whether they be Jehovah’s Witnesses or not. In your name Jesus we say,
Amen.

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21 Comments on Email exchange with a concerned father

  1. Frank says:

    Hi Jim. It is regrettable all the problems you have faced with regard to your children.

    Some of the best advice I received was to teach children HOW to think rather than what to think. This is a gift that will last them all their lives and will serve them well. Unfortunately, many JW children are heading into the “Sparlock” generation – someone will explain.

    As a theistic agnostic, I have learned the benefit of weighting both sides of issues faced in life.

    I’m so glad the court saw that Freedom of Religion trumps your ex-wife’s belief that ‘her’ children should only hear one side.

    All strength to you in what you seek.

    Frank V

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    • Orwell says:

      Frank:
      Hi Jim. It is regrettable all the problems you have faced with regard to your children.

      Some of the best advice I received was to teach children HOW to think rather than what to think. This is a gift that will last them all their lives and will serve them well. Unfortunately, many JW children are heading into the “Sparlock” generation – someone will explain.

      As a theistic agnostic, I have learned the benefit of weighting both sides of issues faced in life.

      I’m so glad the court saw that Freedom of Religion trumps your ex-wife’s belief that ‘her’ children should only hear one side.

      All strength to you in what you seek.

      Frank V

      Hey Frank, Julia Orwell here. I can’t log into JWsurvey for some reason but I’d like to continue our conversation.
      Here is what I tried to write on JWsurvey:
      Ha ha a couple of elders came to shepherd my husband cuz he fessed up to drinking too much one night and doing something silly. I said it was minor and he’d prayed for forgiveness and I had forgiven him, but he insisted on telling and elder, so for an hour these guys came and talked to us, which was ok cuz they were nice, but it ended up making my husband feel worse because they kept harping on about it. Ten minutes would have done it, but they can’t count ten minutes on their field service report.

      One rocked up last night to follow up with my husband, but he’d gone to work and forgotten to let the man know. It was about 7 pm and I was home alone. Ha ha the elder couldn’t get off my balcony quickly enough! They haven’t really shown a great deal of concern about me and the things I raised with them a few weeks ago, about my doubts about the FDS and all that. After I spoke about those doubts, Cedars emailed me and said it’s best to avoid those topics with the elders, so I haven’t mentioned it since and they haven’t spoken to me either, tho the guy I spoke to those few weeks ago did say he’d like to follow up with me about ‘apostate’ exposure.

      He hasn’t yet, and thanks to you Frank, and to Cedars for your advice. I guess I can’t avoid them forever, but I can buy myself some time!

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  2. Londo says:

    Amen!

    My prayers are with you and your children, Jim!

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  3. C M says:

    I truly am happy that you Eric are saving your daughters little by little making them more and more aware of how wonderful life could be. I am sure there is no “handbook” on how to do this it is harder for someone who was never associated with the JWs to help his children but I too pray that Jim is succesful in his efforts. A true victim wife leaves him for an active JW and now his children are being taught lies, when your children grow a little older they will have memories and will realize now that they can think for themselves and make their own judgement and weigh in on tgings they will see and appreciate all the efforts you made to help them and they too will free themselves of this organization.
    C M

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  4. man oh man says:

    I am hoping it works out for you Jim and family. Just by loving your children in trueness and having a great relationship with them they are going to see the difference, I promise. Jw love is so shallow. They are taught to love the organization over all else, even god, well it is their god.
    I am glad you won your court case and at least it sounds like you can work on keeping the programming out with no holds barred. Steven Hassan has some great advice so if you haven’t heard of him you may want to get his book freedom of mind. Who knows maybe your children will end up helping their mom as well. Well anyway we are routing and also praying for ya.

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  5. Gojira101 says:

    My heart just cried out in joy that JJ and JIm are talking to their kids. I was feeling very down today (like most days)because of being a born-in JW and feeling like there is no hope to reveal the WT for who they are, but I’m so encouraged there are people fighting and I just felt my spirits raise! We can all fight and bring hope to individual people. There is still hope and if there is hope, there is the willingness to fight! Also I’m so thankful JJ for you having this site to help people!
    Peace to all of you and I will be including you in my prayers.
    G

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  6. New Dissident says:

    Hi Jim, and welcome to the forum. So sad to hear that you & your family are victims to the horrible cult known as JW’s. I KNOW, because I was raised one and was one my entire life [49 yrs]. They have no qualms about using anything against you and will attack you personally. You cannot confront them head on, because they will always believe they are doing God’s will. You are taking the right step with educating yourself and your children. I don’t know if you or many JW’s know, but Norway is trying to ban the JW’s children’s literature in their country. The ‘My Book of Bible Stories’ being at the top of the list. A known Psychologist in that country was quoted as saying that JW’s are raising a future generation of serial killers.That book contains graphic pictures of violence, murder, death, etc. Jim if your kids have that book look thru it and you can see what I’m talking about.
    Here is the link to the Norway article.

    http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.10840741
    I hope it helps and we wish you peace on your journey and pray for you & your kids. You do not want your kids part of this cult. It will squash any dreams or hopes they have and they will be left with nothing but a difficult life full of servitude to an organization that doesn’t give a S#&T.

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  7. Freethinkerinjah says:

    I love the process of many waking up spiritually, especially when innocent children are caught in the crossfire, they then get help from aware parents, like JJ and Jim. Both your experiences made my day. My prayers are with you both.

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  8. Jpeezee says:

    I think it should be noted before I begin that I am extremely appalled at the behavior of the “sister” who treated Jim in this way.
    I do believe however that Jim is taking his understandable anger and outrage out on the wrong person.
    To state something a little obvious, I think it is safe to say that the watchtower does not support or condone extra marital affairs.
    I believe if Jim wants to teach his children about the bible and what it truly says, then he had every right to do so as well.
    But to claim that Jim’s betrayal is a result of the watchtower, or “collateral damage”, is placing the blame on a group instead of the people who committed these actions.

    this bible verse should provide some clarity as to how god views this “sisters” act:
    Malachi 3: 1-18
    “Behold, I send my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me. And the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the Lord of hosts. But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap. He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, and they will bring offerings in righteousness to the Lord. Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years. “Then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker in his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner, and do not fear me, says the Lord of hosts. …

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    • JJ says:

      Jpeezee

      Welcome to the site and your opinion is noted. You make a valid point re: the WT not condoning what the sister did initially with her unfaithfulness. However her closed-mindedness and efforts to legally bully her ex-husband are quite appalling too, yet WT approved, as they use these tactics themselves in the courts to accomplish their goals.

      The JW culture and mindset enable these folks to do things that many find unethical and wrong. It enables JW parents to get up on the stand and lie about their beliefs, it enables them to refuse blood transfusions when needed to save the life of their children too. This WT warped way of looking at things has caused untold suffering for people like Jim and many many others.

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  9. Jpeezee says:

    I cannot agree with you more on those points. And I appreciate being welcomed here as that also is a rarity nowadays.

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  10. DanielBdub says:

    Often the body of elders is sympathetic to the adulterer or adulteress . I have seen a case where a dear brother’s wife dumped him for a younger man who was a confirmed womanizing sexual abuser . The innocent brother was all but ostracized from the congregation , while the other two were back in the organization in less than a year , and the x-husband was never viewed in a good light by the elders as long as I knew them all . It was a clear case of lust gone wild . The minor children had to go through that time period too ; and it was confusing for them .

    The WT Society has made numerous blunders . Their congregations are left in the dark . They just don’t know where to place their loyalties when the elders are just flat out wrong .

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  11. Frank says:

    Hi DanielBDub. The problem is that elders are not permitted to use their own Bible-trained consciences. Instead, they are governed by a massive litany of religious regulations.

    What has to be borne in mind is that summary wrong judgements will have to be accounted for. Who will pay the bloodguilt price?

    Frank V

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  12. DanielBdub says:

    Frank , you ask , ” Who will pay the bloodguilt price? ” .

    The answer is , none other than Yeshua . He had paid the price for our sins , and for those of the whole world . Only , if the brothers in Christ cannot forgive those who have been their enemies , then neither they nor their enemies will live past the judgment hour .

    We must always forgive , and even our enemies . . .

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  13. Frank says:

    DanielBDub, the Scriptures are clear when they state that elders will receive a heavier judgement. What would that mean for those who make the regulations? If forgiveness was that simple, why did Paul make this point? Do you believe that Adamic death becomes the bloodguilt price?

    I’ve noticed too you use the name ‘Yeshua.’ Why do you not say ‘Jesus’?

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    • DanielBdub says:

      Hi Brother . first let me comment on your comment : “The problem is that elders are not permitted to use their own Bible-trained consciences. Instead, they are governed by a massive litany of religious regulations.” . . . To this, I question , Are their consciences truly “Bible-trained” ? In this thought is the answer to just how absolutely reprehensible the elders are in the sight of God , Jehovah if you wish , or Yahweh if you wish , or YHWH , or Yehowah . I say Jesus and I say Yeshua , when referring to our big Brother .

      On this question , “Do you believe that Adamic death becomes the bloodguilt price?” , will you elaborate on the question . It’s a good one .

      In Christ , bro dan

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  14. Frank says:

    Hi Daniel. If taken literally, Romans 6:23 appears to say that everyone undergoing the Adamic death will receive everlasting life for having undergone that penalty. Unfortunately this negates the concept of reward and would appear to be at odds.

    If elders are truly Christians then their consciences would follow after the teaching of Jesus. As Jesus puts his followers under the law of love (John 13,34,35)an elder would surely understand that even the worst enemy should be treated with, at least, agape love, if no brotherly love. This goes way beyond a smile, a quiet tone, and surface politeness.

    I have studied a number of judicial cases and have concluded many elders lack even agape love in their deliberations. The first to go should be bad ethics in dealing with accused apostates, for instance. I wrote an essay on the Matthew Barrie judicial case where I personally picked 21 ethical violations, which included straight human rights violations.

    Far from being sought out like a straying sheep, imagine being spoken to like this by an inquisitional elder:

    – From: Inside a Judicial Committee Meeting

    Visitor: Why won’t you answer his questions? (Part Three – 0:58)

    Judicial Chairman: We don’t have time…

    Visitor: You don’t have time?…

    Visitor: He was asking you guys for help…. (Part Three –1:08)

    Judicial Elder One: And you know what – your faith is apart from ours. There’s the door… (Part Three – 1:15)

    Visitor: (pleading) Could you tell…?

    Judicial Elder One: You know what? In a god-like form, I absolutely DO HATE HIM… (the accused)… (Part Three – 6:33)

    Visitor: You know…You know what – I have never seen such a lack of love in all of my life. What happened to the rest of Galatians – the part that talked about love? (Part Three – 5:12)

    – Excerpts from The Jonathan Lee Religious Judicial Case

    Even putting aside those who made these non-biblical regulations, there is a marked difference between elders who are “company men” who disregard the more important things regarding the application of agape and brotherly love, and those who are GENUINELY motivated to ‘save’ a brother or sister from taking a wrong course.

    The only reason why I asked about Yeshua is that it might confuse people as to whom you mean.

    Frankleeh

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  15. Frank says:

    Julia Orwell “(The elder) hasn’t yet, and thanks to you Frank, and to Cedars for your advice. I guess I can’t avoid them forever, but I can buy myself some time!”

    Hi Julia, try again on Survey. My comments were flying south too, but it was because I used the name ‘Skyrainbow,’ that Cedars informed me my comments were going into the spam folder and not being published.

    Julia, I believe the time has long passed where we should automatically trust those who say they are our brothers but who have no intention of keeping our confidential talk confidential (See Matthew Barrie judicial case). This is the point of having two elders call to ‘chat.’ Even if two elders hear talk that is construed to be ‘disloyal’ will feel obligated to inform on the talk. ‘Shepherding calls’ will follow and then, possibly, a judicial case that will require unqualified evidence of your loyalty to the Governing Body.

    We know this from the Matthew Barrie case and is indicated in the Jonathan Lee case. The decision is yours, of course.

    Frank V

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  16. DanielBdub says:

    Frank , what I know is that our inherent death in Adam , is only the death we inherit from sin that we inherited from Adam . There is more bloodguilt than that which Adam brought into the world which must be brought into judgment , and that sin has come down to us through the Father of Sin , the Devil . His sin is unforgivable , And all of those on earth who are part of his scheme will not escape the adverse judgment of God .

    Our Judge Yeshua will sort this out , and each of us who are in CHRIST needn’t worry about our eventuality , because He will bring every thought into captivity as to whether it is acceptable or unacceptable to God .

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  17. Frank says:

    Nicely explained, Daniel. Would you like to tell us a bit about your background?

    Frank V

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  18. danielB says:

    Thanks Frank . My background can be checked out right here at jwstruggle . There is a profile for me in the Forum . I have been commenting here for over 2 years , I suppose . I was an elder for 10 years , though it should have been 15 .

    That does not mean that I am cocky .

    I had to move on . . .

    Your brother , in Christ ,

    DanielBdub , bro dan , Daniel Bruce Wallace , . . . your brother

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