IF THEY ARE READY TO RECEIVE IT

Most if not all of us have considered talking to a close friend and broaching the subject of “the truth about the truth” with them. How would we go about it? Is it worth the risk? How much should we share? How little? It is a dangerous course, but may be a necessary one. Ezekiel told us to sound a warning. Does that apply in this case? Only you and your Bible-trained conscience can answer that. Consider this article’s words:

.

Jesus expressed his willingness to accept the responsibility to do good to others with the words: “I want to.” (Luke 5:12, 13) …Accepting our responsibility to “work what is good toward all” requires a determined effort and perhaps personal sacrifice on our part. (Gal. 6:10) But when we see the good that is accomplished, we can agree with Paul, who said: “With such sacrifices God is well pleased.”—Heb. 13:16. (Our Kingdom Ministry, 9/1991 p. 1 par. 7)

.

Brother Greybeard wrote about being careful before speaking truth to someone. He helped us to see that we need to ascertain whether a friend or family member would be willing to listen to the truth about the truth before we blurt out something that we will regret later. “How to Test the Waters with a JW Friend” is an excellent post to read if you have not done so already. My goal now is to go beyond that to the next step. What if you feel your friend is ready to hear more? What if your love for them and your need to try and help them is overwhelming to the point that you are like Jeremiah? He said:

And in my heart it proved to be like a burning fire shut up in my bones; and I got tired of holding in, and I was unable to endure it. (Jeremiah 20:9)

Yes there is a risk, because you are exposing yourself to a “heresy trial”. It has happened to some among us. But just as many Christians over the centuries have been willing to risk imprisonment, persecution and even death to share their faith with others, if we feel compelled to take this risk then we should pray about it, and then do it. Here follows is one way that may work to reach your friend. The below “what if” exchange is written in a conversational style, and could be used as a starting point. It can be downloaded as a PDF file here, and printed out for your reference as you speak to them. As always, be careful, and remember Jesus’ words:

“Look! I am sending YOU forth as sheep amidst wolves; therefore prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves.” (Matthew 10:16)

.

.

—————————————————————————–

CONVERSATION WITH FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER

—————————————————————————–

.

.

• HAVE YOU EVER HAD DOUBTS? I MEAN REAL DOUBTS ABOUT OUR BELIEFS ON A CERTAIN TOPIC? (WAIT FOR RESPONSE. IF POSITIVE, CONTINUE. IF NOT, SIMPLY MENTION THAT YOU HAVE HAD DOUBTS ABOUT SOME THINGS BUT ARE DETERMINED TO WAIT ON JEHOVAH, AND CHANGE TOPIC)

DISCLAIMER AND REASSURANCE OF CONFIDENTIALITY

• A WHILE BACK I STARTED AN INTENSE STUDY ON THEOCRATIC HISTORY. LOOKING UP ARTICLES FROM THE 1920s, THE 1910s AND EARLIER. RUSSELL’S WRITINGS, RUTHERFORD’S BOOKS, STUDYING AND CHECKING THE MANY REFERENCES FROM THE PROCLAIMERS BOOK, AND WHAT I FOUND…WAS STARTLING.  THINGS I DIDN’T EVEN WANT TO KNOW- NEVER DREAMED POSSIBLE. HUNDRED HOURS ON THIS HAS BEEN SPENT AND I’VE LOOKED UP SO MANY ARTICLES AND SCRIPTURES. THE PROCLAIMERS BOOK WAS INSTRUMENTAL- ACTUALLY GOING AND LOOKING UP MANY OF THE ARTICLES AND EVENTS MENTIONED IN THE BOOK… AND WHAT I FOUND WAS SHOCKING. IT MADE ME UNSURE OF WHAT TO DO, WHAT TO THINK. SO WHEN YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO, WHAT’S THE BEST THING TO DO? NOTHING, RIGHT? JUST TAKE IN MORE KNOWLEDGE, WAIT ON JEHOVAH, AND PRAY AND STUDY MORE. AND THAT’S WHAT I’VE BEEN DOING SINCE THEN. JUST TRYING TO FIGURE IT ALL OUT, AND NOT GO OFF HALF-COCKED.

• I FEEL VERY CLOSE TO YOU, LIKE I CAN CONFIDE IN YOU ABOUT ANYTHING- I WANT TO TELL YOU MORE BUT I MUST ASK THAT YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF- BY THAT I ASK YOU TO PROMISE ME THAT YOU WON’T SPEAK OF THIS TO ANYONE- NOT YOUR WIFE, OR ANOTHER FRIEND, CERTAINLY NOT ONE OF THE ELDERS BECAUSE I DON’T WANT YOU TO GET IN TROUBLE AND I DON’T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE EITHER. IF YOU ARE UNCOMFORTABLE DOING THAT IT’S OK- I’M NOT GOING TO BE HURT OR OFFENDED. WE CAN TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE AND IT’S FORGOTTEN, I WON’T BRING IT UP AGAIN… I THINK YOU KNOW THAT I HAVE WANTED TO TELL YOU SOMETHING FOR A WHILE BUT HELD MY TONGUE. MY GOAL IS TO BUILD UP, TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE- MY FRIENDS, MY FAMILY. THAT’S MY NATURE.  BUT IF YOU WANT ME TO CONTINUE I NEED SOME ASSURANCE THAT YOU WILL KEEP THIS IN CONFIDENCE- THAT YOU WILL LOOK ME IN THE EYE AND SWEAR TO ME THAT YOU WILL NOT TELL ANYONE WHAT I’VE LEARNED… CAN YOU DO THAT? THIS INFORMATION, IF TALKED ABOUT OPENLY, COULD GET ME DFed. IT COULD GET YOU DFed AND THAT’S THE LAST THING I WANT… (WAIT FOR RESPONSE– IF THEY SWEAR, CONTINUE. IF NOT STOP. YOU HAVE NOT DIVULGED ANYTHING YET) …DO YOU KNOW WHAT MORPHEUS SAID WHEN HE OFFERED TO TELL NEO ABOUT THE MATRIX? ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE MOVIE? (WAIT FOR ANSWER) I KNOW IT’S JUST A MOVIE BUT THE ANALOGY HOLDS TRUE- TAKE THE BLUE PILL, AND YOU GO HOME AND SLEEP SOUNDLY IN YOUR BED BECAUSE IGNORANCE IS BLISS. TAKE THE RED PILL AND SEE HOW FAR THE RABBIT HOLE GOES… IT WAS LIKE THAT FOR ME.

THE HISTORY OF THE ORGANIZATION – A RECAP

• SO ANYWAY I LEARNED THE HISTORY OF THE ORGANIZATION IN GREAT DETAIL AND I NEED TO GIVE YOU A RECAP OF THIS FIRST SO BEAR WITH ME, BUT KNOWING YOU AS WELL AS I DO

I THINK YOU’LL FIND IT INTERESTING: FIRST OFF, IN RUSSELL’S TIME HE WAS CONSIDERED THE FAITHFUL SLAVE. THIS ISN’T A SECRET AT ALL, IT’S IN THE PROCLAIMERS BOOK. RUSSELL DIDN’T DENY IT, AND HE WAS CONSIDERED “THE SLAVE” FOR NEARLY 40 YEARS, THEN HE DIED IN 1916. AFTER THAT, RUTHERFORD BECAME THE FAITHFUL SLAVE ACCORDING TO THE WT ARTICLES AND BOOKS OF THE TIME. HE EXERCISED TOTAL CONTROL OF THE ORGANIZATION, JUST AS RUSSELL HAD…BUT NOT AT FIRST. A.H. MCMILLIAN WAS THE V.P., THERE WAS A BOARD OF DIRECTORS THAT HAD TO RATIFY WHAT THE PRESIDENT DID, ETC., BUT THAT ONLY LASTED FOR A VERY SHORT TIME. IN RUSSELL’S WILL HE ASKED THAT IT BE SETUP THAT WAY. RUTHERFORD WAS ABLE GET RID OF THESE ONES QUICKLY AND HE OUSTED ALL THE DIRECTORS LOYAL TO RUSSELL. HE WAS A SHREWD MAN, A SHREWD LAWYER, AND IT WAS EASY FOR HIM. AGAIN, THIS IS IN THE OLD ARTICLES AND BOOKS FROM THE 1920S AND 1930S, IT’S PRETTY MUCH ALL THERE. ALSO THERE ARE COURT RECORDS ATTESTING TO THESE FACTS- RUTHERFORD WAS SUED FOR LIBEL AND SLANDER DURING THIS TIME AND I’VE READ PORTIONS OF THOSE DOCUMENTS THERE’S LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF PAGES AND ALSO LETTERS FROM A COUPLE OF THE BROTHERS THAT WERE HURT BY WHAT HAPPENED AND FELT THAT THEY HAD TO LEAVE BETHEL BECAUSE OF IT. SO HE CONTROLLED THE ORGANIZATION FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS, WAS CONSIDERED THE FAITHFUL SLAVE, AND THEN HE DIED.

 

BTW I WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT THIS ISN’T ABOUT FINDING FLAWS IN IMPERFECT MEN AND USING THAT AS SOME KIND OF EXCUSE. THIS OVERVIEW ISN’T ABOUT THAT AT ALL. ARE YOU OK? ARE YOU STILL WITH ME OR DO YOU WANT ME TO STOP? (WAIT FOR RESPONSE. NOTHING ACTUALLY “APOSTATE” HAS YET BEEN SAID, ONLY THAT YOU HAVE DOUBTS)

• NOW NORR AND FRANZ HAD BEEN HIS CLOSEST ALLIES AND THEY BEGAN A KIND OF JOINT MANAGEMENT OF THE WTS AT THAT TIME. THIS ISN’T A SECRET EITHER; IT’S IN THE OLD PUBLICATIONS AND OTHER WRITINGS. SO NORR WAS NOW CONSIDERED THE “FAITHFUL SLAVE”. REMEMBER, THE SCRIPTURE IN MATT 24:45-47 IS IN THE SINGULAR, AND BROTHERS AT HQ HAD ALWAYS LOOKED AT IT THAT WAY, AS ONE PRESIDENT HANDLING GOD’S INTERESTS ON EARTH. AND IT’S OF COURSE ALSO A PARABLE, THE PARALLEL ACCOUNT IN LUKE SHOWS THAT… BUT ANYWAY, NORR RAN THINGS, AND FRANZ DID MOST OF THE WRITING AND OVERSAW ALL THE DOCTRINAL STUFF. NORR WASN’T AS INTERESTED IN THE DEEP SCRIPTURAL THINGS REALLY- HE WAS AN ORGANIZER. THIS ALSO IS MENTIONED IN VARIOUS WT ARTICLES AND PUBLICATIONS. BOOK PRODUCTION WENT THROUGH THE ROOF WHEN NORR TOOK OVER, HE INSTITUTED QUOTAS AND ALL NIGHT PRESS RUNS, ETC. THAT WAS HIS FORTE AND HE WAS GOOD AT IT.

 

• SO STILL AT THIS POINT IN TIME THERE WAS NO “GOVERNING BODY” LIKE IT EXISTS TODAY, WITH SEVEN BROTHERS ON IT, JOINTLY DECIDING WHAT GETS PUBLISHED AND WHAT THE POLICIES ARE AND SO ON. SO IT’S THE EARLY 1970s AND A NUMBER OF RESPONSIBLE BROTHERS ON THE CORPORATION, AND IN THE WRITING DEPT, ORGANIZED THEMSELVES AND EXPLAINED THAT THEY FELT THAT THE SOCIETY SHOULD NOT BE RUN BY JUST ONE PERSON, THE PRESIDENT. THE PRESIDENT HAD ALWAYS BEEN DE FACTO, “THE SLAVE”, EVER SINCE RUSSELL BASICALLY WAS, AS MENTIONED.  DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? (WAIT FOR RESPONSE)

• SO I’M FINALLY GETTING TO THE POINT A BIT MORE BUT LET ME CLARIFY A COUPLE THINGS: SINCE 1971 THERE WAS AN ENLARGING OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF THE SOCIETY, AND BY 1975 THERE WERE 17 MEMBERS. (FROM PROCLAIMERS, p. 108) BUT THE DIRECTORS HAD NO ACTUAL POWER OR CONTROLLING VOTES AS TO WHAT THE SOCIETY WOULD DO; THAT HAD BEEN CHANGED ALL THE WAY BACK WHEN RUTHERFORD TOOK OVER. SO THESE ONES FELT THAT THINGS WERE NOT BEING RUN THEOCRATICALLY, AND WANTED TO RESTRUCTURE THE ORGANIZATION. SO IT CAME TO A BIT OF A HEAD WHEN FRED FRANZ GAVE A TALK IN SEPTEMBER OF 1975 AT THE GILEAD GRADUATION. THIS WAS IN FRONT OF ALL THE HEADQUARTERS STAFF AND BETHELITES AND THE MISSIONARIES- ABOUT 2,000 BROTHERS. IN HIS TALK HE SHOWED FROM THE BOOK OF ACTS THAT JEHOVAH GOD AND CHRIST JESUS NEVER HAD A GOVERNING BODY DURING THE DAYS OF THE APOSTLES, AND THAT NO SUCH BODY SINCE THAT TIME HAS EVER EXISTED. WHERE WAS THE GOVERNING BODY IN RUSSELL’S TIME HE ASKED? HE FURTHER BROUGHT OUT THAT GOD HAS ALWAYS DEALT THROUGH ONE MAN, AND THAT MAN HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE WTS. …NOW MY JAW HIT THE FLOOR WHEN I READ ABOUT THIS. I WOULDN’T HAVE BELIEVED IT IF I HADN’T SEEN THE TRANSCRIPT AND ACTUALLY LISTENED TO THE RECORDING OF BROTHER FRANZ– I’VE LISTENED TO IT TWICE, AND FRED FRANZ HAS A VERY DISTINCTIVE VOICE THERE’S NO DOUBT IT’S HIM… AND HE WAS RIGHT- THE WORD “GOVERNING BODY” DOESN’T EVEN APPEAR IN THE SCRIPTURES. NOR DOES THE WORD “ORGANIZATION”.   YOU KNOW WHAT NORR SAID, SHORTLY AFTER THE GILEAD GRADUATION? I MEAN, A PUBLIC LIKE THAT TALK, STATING THAT THERE WAS NO G.B. DURING THE 1ST CENTURY CAUSED QUIT A STIR, BUT HE WAS TRYING TO DEFEND NORR AND HIS POSITION AS V.P. AND AS THE NEXT PRESIDENT. IF IT HAD BEEN ANYBODY ELSE FRED FRANZ WOULD HAVE BEEN DISFELLOWSHIPPED FOR APOSTASY. SO NORR SAID THIS LATER:

“THERE ARE SOME THINGS I KNOW—I KNOW THAT JEHOVAH IS GOD, THAT CHRIST JESUS IS HIS SON, THAT HE GAVE HIS LIFE AS A RANSOM FOR US, THAT THERE IS A RESURRECTION. OTHER THINGS I’M NOT SO CERTAIN ABOUT. 1914— I DON’T KNOW. WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT 1914 FOR A LONGTIME. WE MAY BE RIGHT AND I HOPE WE ARE.” (SEE CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, PAGE 260)

LYMAN SWINGLE SAID THIS: “AS FAR AS 1914 IS CONCERNED, JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES GOT THE WHOLE THING—LOCK, STOCK AND BARREL—FROM THE SECOND ADVENTISTS.” (SEE CRISIS OF CONSCIENCE, PAGE 259)

 

• SO SHORTLY AFTER ALL THIS FRANZ AND NORR LOST THEIR BATTLE TO STOP THE FORMING OF AN ACTUAL “GOVERNING BODY” AND THEN BEGINNING IN JANUARY OF 1976 THESE DIRECTORS AL BECAME GOVERNING BODY MEMBERS. (FROM PROCLAIMERS, p. 109) SO WHAT I DISCOVERED IS THAT THERE IS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF THINGS THAT ARE LEFT OUT OF THE PROCLAIMERS BOOK, AND THERE ARE MANY THINGS IN THE OLDER PUBLICATIONS THAT ARE SURPRISING, TO SAY THE LEAST. IF THESE DETAILS WERE TO BECOME COMMON KNOWLEDGE IT WOULD BE DISASTROUS TO THE FAITH OF MANY.

• SO IT ALL COMES UP TO THE PRESENT. “THE SLAVE” IS BEING EMPHASIZED LIKE CRAZY, WITH RECENT STUDY ARTICLES SAYING THINGS LIKE, “IF YOU DON’T LISTEN TO THE SLAVE, YOU ARE NOT LISTENING TO JEHOVAH”, AND IT HAS BECOME A FORM OF IDOLATRY- A MODERN-DAY GOLDEN CALF FOR SOME WITNESSES, AND IT IS REALLY BOTHERING ME. WELL THAT’S IT FOR NOW…MY INTENT WAS NOT TO OVERWHELM YOU WITH INFORMATION AND I HOPE I HAVEN’T DONE THAT. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? (WAIT FOR RESPONSE)

 

Rating 4.71 out of 5
[?]

49 Comments on Sharing Your “Sacred Secret” With A Loved One

  1. Dinah says:

    I don’t understand how you guys running this site claim to be active Witnesses and write stuff like this. Far be it from me to tell you how to serve Jah more fully, but all of this just sounds deceptive and manipulative. Why not just admit you don’t agree with Watchtower doctrine anymore and get DF’d? Then you can host a respectable apostate website, which is what you’re trying to do here. Or is your goal to make people believe they’re on a pro-Witness blog and then once they start reading, their eyes will be opened to “the truth about The Truth?” I just get this creepy vibe that you’re not being straight up with your readers. I’m all for exposing false Watchtower doctrine, but I don’t think it’s fair to deceive people to getting there.

      (Quote)

    • andrew says:

      Hi Dinah
      Thank you for expressing your honest opinion. I am one of the contributors on this site. I don’t think anyone is trying to fool JWs into thinking this is a pro-Watchtower site. I think it is quite obvious we don’t agree with all of the Watchtower’s doctrine.

      As far as being DFed, you do realize that what you are suggesting (that I get myself DFed) would mean immediate and permanent estrangement from my whole family? Some may feel that is the route to go, however my plan is to fade.

      My goal and I believe the goal of the other contributors is to host a Christian site that helps JWs, ex-JWs, and any other Christian.

        (Quote)

      • Dinah says:

        I’m a fader too, so believe me I know that “just go get disfellowshipped” isn’t the easy choice. I guess the language on the home page about “we’re baptized Witnesses in good standing” and all that makes it sound like you’re on a pro-Watchtower site, when really if your elders ever found out about this site, you’d all be DF’d without a choice.

        I hate that the Watchtower Society makes us feel like we have to hide what we are or risk banishment. For as much as I believe the Watchtower’s days are numbered, I don’t want to see naive Witnesses stumble onto this site and think “Oh this is a blog run by my brothers!” but then “Oh no! This is apostate! This is all about how to unWitness to Witnesses!” and go running the other way. Granted, they’ll do that anyway. Making your blog APPEAR pro-Witness when it is anything but was the part that gave me the creepy vibe.

        However, I know that our goal as JW faders is the same, which is to see people start thinking for themselves and not just doing what the Watchtower tells them to do. So for that I applaud this blog’s efforts and maybe for those just starting down the road of having questions, this blog will be the best first stop for them, thinking they’re in the company of “inquiring minds and friends.” Then of course they’ll just go spinning down the rabbit hole to where the rest of us are. :)

          (Quote)

        • greybeard says:

          Hi Dinah,

          just because we love our brothers who are Jehovah’s Witnesses does not mean we are “Pro-Watchtower”. On the “About” page it is very clear that we question the Watchtower as the FIRST paragraph states, “As Jehovah’s Witnesses today, nearly 100 years past the date of 1914, we must face the fact that again, like way back then, there are some problems with our teachings and with the way the leadership functions within the Watchtower Organization.”

          I would also think that the title of this web site is clear too, jwstruggle.com. I am sorry you have received a “creepy vibe” but maybe that is because you are experiencing cognitive dissonance yourself. We do not feel we are “apostate” in Gods eyes. Sure we are in the Watchtowers but they are not who they think they are. We don’t feel Jesus appointed them over us in 1914-18.

          It so happens that we all have family who are JW’s that we love very deeply. So the real struggle is how to keep this relationship open with our family while we fade from the Watchtower. We are not trying to trap unsuspecting JW’s. We do not even expect JW’s who don’t question the Watchtower to visit a site like this. We only expect JW’s who are struggling and questioning the WT/GB/JWorg to visit. I hope your feeling’s about us change.

          Your brother,
          Greybeard

            (Quote)

    • Dennis says:

      Hi Dinah,

      Nice to read your post on JW Struggle. Your entitled to your opinions and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I would like to make comment though on a couple of things mentioned in your reply. These comments are of course only my opinion.

      You said, “Far be it from me to tell you how to serve Jah more fully, but all of this just sounds deceptive and manipulative.”

      I’m sorry you feel this way. I view the course outlined in the above article as cautious. I don’t see it as deceptive or manipulative in any way. As a matter of fact, the article reminds me of the way the Reasoning Book suggests one might reply to questions asked in field service. It’s certainly not on par with the Theological Warfare policy that is held by the Watchtower leadership or the printing of one Watchtower for public consumption and one for study by the brothers and sisters.

      As you know, what one stands to lose in the way of family relationships when one shares doubts or beliefs within the organization can be devastating. Since the bible admonishes us to “count the cost” it may be that some aren’t ready to lose their family because they hold a different theological belief on certain issues while still being in agreement on many others. This inability to express yourself openly without fear within the organization is not a culture the rank and file created but is one that comes from leadership. I for one think it sad, that in what is supposed to be Jah’s organization, some of our brothers and sisters feel compelled to live in fear of their leaders. Very sad indeed.

      You said, “Why not just admit you don’t agree with Watchtower doctrine anymore and get DF’d?”

      To clarify, the purpose of this site is not, nor has it ever been to encourage JW’s to leave the organization. For some, to do this would be the end of their spiritual walk, not good!
      Not all of us here have the same position in regard to the WTBTS or their doctrine. I would be surprised if anyone here would reject all of their doctrine outright and most of us hold to some of it to varying degrees. All of us have a deep love for the brothers and sisters. I would imagine that many of us think the leadership has burdened these dear ones with some bible teachings that are not scripturally supported and in the name of unity insist that these ones then perpetuate their error without having the freedom to publicly question it.

      I addressed the desire of many not to get dfed above.

      You said, “Then you can host a respectable apostate website, which is what you’re trying to do here.”

      This is a mean spirited statement don’t you think? This kind of name calling is just meant to discredit the messenger without having to deal with the substance of his argument. Many religions are guilty of trying to shut down freedom of thought by applying this derogatory label. There are many different biblical conversations on this website and we would love to have your bible based input on these subjects. I’m sure your input would enrich those conversation on biblical theology.

      You said, “Or is your goal to make people believe they’re on a pro-Witness blog”

      I don’t view this site as being officially pro or anti Witness. I believe it is pro Jesus Christ and his father Jehovah. The conversations in this regard are done so in the context of our shared prospective, that of a JW background. We then grapple with how best to share this with our JW family and friends within the confines exerted on all JW’s by the leadership.

      You said, “I just get this creepy vibe that you’re not being straight up with your readers.”

      The title of this website is JW Struggle. I think that
      accurately represents the posts you find here. I think that’s pretty “straight up”. In my thinking, it’s not the struggle to remain an “Organization Man” despite the pressures of the world around us, but how to remain a Witness of Jehovah God himself and his son Christ Jesus despite the pressure from both within and outside of the organization known as Jehovah’s Witnesses.

      In Christian Love,
      Dennis

        (Quote)

    • DanielB says:

      JJ asked, “How would we go about it? Is it worth the risk?”, over talking to that carefully chosen confidant.

      JJ, I know you are an eloquent speaker, and have a kind way with your words; I heard your speaking from the linked sound file. I would like to comment under your heading above, DISCLAIMER AND REASSURANCE OF CONFIDENTIALITY , the following:

      If we first see the need to make this confidant our wife, There are a couple verses that will be good to meditate on first. There are diferent kinds of women, ranging from the strange to the capable at heart. The strange: (considering conditions at the time of it’s writing, see Micah 7:5-7, and Proverbs 6:23-7:27), and the Capable wife: Pr 31:10-31.

      Then decide where she is in the equation. By now in your lives together, you probably know if it is her; to talk this over with her, or not.

      A friend far away may be a better choice for you to just get things out, say, on the phone. Been there…

      Or a “weak” friend nearby who would never betray you. But sooner or later, it’s your own dear family. You will need to lead. Reassure them / her, and help them follow your loving headship.

      That is my suggestion.

      Prayers to follow, bro …………..

        (Quote)

  2. DanielB says:

    Dear Dinah, consider a few things about all of this.

    1. You intimate that there seems to be some hypocrisy in the purpose of this blog. If any involved here have a smooth way of living lies, then this will be discovered and remedied, even should an “apostate” site need to dwindle and fold. But I encourage you to look at things in a more loving way, (which hopes all things), and enjoy some good christian liberty here with brothers and sisters.

    2. On this thought:

    ” I don’t want to see naive Witnesses stumble onto this site and think “Oh this is a blog run by my brothers!” but then “Oh no! This is apostate! This is all about how to unWitness to Witnesses!” and go running the other way.”:

    This is about the unreasoning types, who are “naive Witnesses” who need to have direction too, for a better exit than to “go running the other way.”

    I know too, and am sad that, so many have just run away to embrace many detrimental things in an ungodly world.

    But if there is the Almighty’s blessing on this blog and it is time for it, then stay tuned! It will be good, (def.: “from God”).

    3. There are professional counselors who are not witnesses who specialize in helping witnesses to exit. If they know how to help some witnesses to go on to a better life, they will do it, I am sure. If they knew of this blog, they would no doubt point their clients to this site to help them. It is a good place to learn to use one’s own head.

    Thank you for making us consider your concerns. Maybe you are like me, and would like to get back to the subject, up top, “Sharing your sacred secret with a loved one”.

    I have some thoughts on this too. How about you?

    Your brother in Christ

      (Quote)

  3. JJ says:

    Sister Dinah

    I apologize if things feel “arranged” in a misleading way here. It is NOT my intention to mislead anyone, but I do want fellow Witnesses to feel welcome to be here. There are no doubt some brothers and sisters that would be uncomfortable on the site, which is regrettable. Thank you for your thoughtful feedback- I pray every day that the site can be humble and helpful to current and former JWs, including myself.

    To all that have commented on this thread:

    I really appreciate what you are all saying, and I thank you. The reaction to Sister Dinah’s comment has been respectful but perhaps a little “defensive”. Let’s not make anyone feel unwelcome or pounced upon. We all need counsel- every single one of us. At the same time, your questions put to our sister are fair ones.

    Talking things out, and communicating without fear of reprisal is a wonderful thing isn’t? It feels good to be able to express ourselves without the worry that we will be censured. That’s part of what Jesus meant in John 8:32. That’s the Christian Freedom Ray Franz wrote about in his book.

      (Quote)

  4. Picardo371 says:

    JJ said, “I really appreciate what you are all saying, and I thank you. The reaction to Sister Dinah’s comment has been respectful but perhaps a little “defensive”. Let’s not make anyone feel unwelcome or pounced upon.”

    Sister Dinah. I just want to make sure that you know I appreciate your posts on this site recently and I do hope that you stick around and contribute. Your posts are very well written. I appreciate that as I have difficulty in this regard.

    Your Brother,
    Dennis

      (Quote)

  5. Dinah says:

    Hi all! I know I’m a newcomer to this blog, having just found it the other day. So I have yet to get a real feel for all the personalities of the contributors here, and I understand that you may be “defensive” if you thought I was attacking you and what you have all worked for on this site. Certainly that was not my intention! We are all on the same page here!

    Since I don’t know any of you yet at all, I can’t say what motivates you to continue going to meetings but then hosting a blog “of this nature.” It is the JW lingo that makes “apostate” a bad word, and I apologize if you took offense to me using that term. A friend pointed out the other day how JWs take offense to being called a “cult” and yet they just throw around that word “apostate” like it’s nothing. So the same way we are programmed to defend against the Witnesses being a cult, likewise we want to defend when someone calls us apostate.

    However, there are two pretty clear ways that the Watchtower Society identifies apostates, which is by drawing people away from the organization and/or speaking badly about the Truth. When you are forming “scripts” for “how to share your sacred secret with a loved one” which is SOOO reminiscent of the conversation starters in the RS book — doesn’t that fall under the category of “drawing people away?” Or if you do not agree with that, then by speaking ill of Watchtower leadership, which I will agree has become Phariseeic, falls into the second category.

    I’m not trying just to put labels on you guys, as I don’t want people just calling me “apostate” without even having a conversation with me. But the farther and farther I fade from the organization, I realize that even that term “apostate” holds less and less weight with me anymore. It means nothing out in the “rest of the world.”

    Anyhow, I hope you guys will see I’m on your side and I’m not the voice of the enemy here or anything. :)

      (Quote)

    • DanielB says:

      Welcome Dinah. Brotherly hugs. Nice having you here.

      You said “However, there are two pretty clear ways that the Watchtower Society identifies apostates, which is by drawing people away from the organization and/or speaking badly about the Truth.”

      Actually, the intention here seems to be to draw more people to Jesus, our brother, and in so doing, the WTS (not the truth) is revealed. Beating fellow slaves is not good; so we seem to lick each other’s wounds some. There are those here who have empathy, and some who are getting new education on old words in the Scriptures.

      On the words “apostasy and apostate”, we could define this as the world’s “heresy and heretic”. And those seem to have been heroes among the Watchtower publications. The WTS just doesn’t know they roughly treat heretics who exercise conscience and consciousness, and these are good things to exercise for christians.

      Glad you are on our side, Dinah. -A delight to have you join in. :)

        (Quote)

  6. Simpleman says:

    “However, there are two pretty clear ways that the Watchtower Society identifies apostates, which is by drawing people away from the organization and/or speaking badly about the Truth.”

    Hi Dinah

    I’m an active JW and it is not my intention to leave the Watchtower society nor do I encourage others to do so. However if they wish to leave fading always is the best option, I’ve seen too many write one-way tickets out of the organization…fading is by far the best way out.

    For the most part I do not wish to fade; my problem – it’s the Watchtowers way or the highway. I don’t want to necessarily argue the point with the brothers over doctrine; I just want intellectual and spiritual freedom to differ on matters that don’t involve salvation. Really is ‘1914’ about salvation or “this generation” – NO! Yet reading the Watchtower you’d think so – you can get disfellowshipped for just not believing their interpretations (that does though depend on the body of elders), you have to swallow the whole package and to me that is wrong.

    As for speaking to others that’s a dangerous game unless you want a one way ticket out. I have and still do pose subtle questions to brothers to test the atmosphere, but quickly back-off. Most are unacquainted of the Watchtowers state of affairs and its history and are quite happy staying that way.

    I still deem Jehovah as using the Watchtower (see “House of God” on the forum, I must get back to those questions) in the final part of this “system of things”, it’s one of the reasons I stay.

    I appreciate Andrew, Greybeard and JJ don’t agree but that’s their right to do so, but I do appreciate the fact they permit me to post here and I believe they are sincere open and frank about their views. If the Watchtower allowed more openness and frankness and let individuals express their concerns we might not be in this muddle today.

      (Quote)

  7. papabear says:

    Dinah, you mentioned, “I realize that even that term “apostate” holds less and less weight with me anymore. It means nothing out in the “rest of the world.”

    I just want to say that “apostate” holds HUGE weight. We really need to keep in mind that the organization abuses this term to apply to themselves. Talking against/denying Jehovah is very serious. My sister, after growing up around the truth and getting baptised at 16 DAed herself saying that she doesn’t beleive in a God. That is an apostate.
    As far as I can tell, every person that posts and comments on this site believe in, and want to serve God whole souled.
    I personally don’t think I would be a spiritual person if it wasn’t for JW org. But I also feel after a lot of bible reading that they miss the mark as a chosen organization. I don’t want to feel obligated to believe everything they have said. I find it a comfort to hear others that have the same understandings as I do from my bible reading and meditation.

    with brotherly love,
    papabear

      (Quote)

  8. Dinah says:

    Simpleman — You hit the nail on the head: It’s the Watchtower’s way or the highway.

    And Daniel you’re right too — There is an obvious line between the Watchtower Society and Truth these days. Yet they use those terms synonymously, hence no wonder the average rank and file get shivers when they think of “To whom shall we go away to?”

    I wish it were possible to discuss blogs like this or other JW forums I’ve found within the walls of the Kingdom Hall, where we don’t need scripts to broach the subject in dark alleyways with trenchcoats pulled up high around our ears.

    Alas, I’ve taken more comfort in the brotherhood of exJWs than I ever did with the brothers and sisters of my congregation. Hah!

      (Quote)

  9. DanielB says:

    Yes, and yep!

      (Quote)

  10. greybeard says:

    If the JW’s were not so dogmatic about believing every utterance from the GB and didn’t hold the threat of DFing over our heads for using our own heads most of us would still be going to the Hall where our family and friends are. When Russell ran things he was against organized control and religion. Everyone was free to believe what they thought true. Yes most agreed on what Russell taught but it wasn’t held up as doctrine that one must except in order to be saved. I appreciate all your thoughts and comments. Isn’t it nice to be able to disagree and still be friends? I will never agree with Simpleman that the JW’s are “Gods household” but that doesn’t mean we can’t be friends. We agree on more things than we disagree on more than likely. The one thing I would like to think we all have in common is that Jesus is our mediator and not any man. If it turns out that Simpleman is right and we are found out of “Gods household” will God not save us because we didn’t go along with the untruth’s? I really don’t think so. I have been to other churches and have seen to many good people in them to not believe they have “wheat” too. I can’t see anyone becoming a JW if they have any knowledge of their past and present beliefs. The internet is changing all of that.

    Your brother,
    Greybeard

      (Quote)

    • DanielB says:

      I see parallels in what the inspired prophets wrote that correspond with Ezekiel 34, and am convinced that we are in a state of the scrawny sheep. I still need to examine better the 3 1/2 years prophesies. Also, if the 3 1/2 if figurative. I refuse to draw a conclusion on this until I know it is from the Word. There seems to be typical and antitypical application on these things to me still.

        (Quote)

      • DanielB says:

        I compare, and add to what I just said, to the apostle’s revelation: “For even the Christ did not please himself; but just as it is written: ‘The reproaches of those who were reproaching you have fallen upon me.'” (Ps 69.9, on Christ) “For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.” -Romans 15:3,4 We must endure similarly as Christ did. This is endurance-strengthening. Glory to the Almighty, and to Christ!

          (Quote)

  11. Simpleman says:

    Yes Greybeard that’s OK with me, friends we can be, agreement maybe not. I like to think there’s a Thirdway to thinking and getting what’s happening in the Watchtower into context, but we can agree the fundamentals, namely Jesus Christ is our savoir.

      (Quote)

  12. Dinah says:

    Greybeard said, “If the JW’s were not so dogmatic about believing every utterance from the GB and didn’t hold the threat of DFing over our heads for using our own heads most of us would still be going to the Hall where our family and friends are.”

    You’re probably right! But the fact of the matter is that “wishin and hopin” ain’t gonna lead to changing this organization. They keep trying to make changes to appease the masses, such as allowing people to take 98% blood now but it still can’t be 100%. But they’re never going to allow us to question the Governing Body, have hot debates over scripture in the Theocratic Ministry School, or stop the practice of shunning our loved ones.

    Hence, I am finding my spiritual path my own way now, and I enjoy meeting others with open minds, like on this blog. I don’t wish my brothers and sisters any harm, which is why I don’t want to see them deceived or manipulated any more than they already have been by the WTS. I believe everybody has to come to this place on their own.

    As far as if I’m found as part of God’s household or not, it doesn’t frighten me anymore. I don’t believe that only Jehovah’s Witnesses are going to be “saved.” I think of Abraham questioning Jehovah about the 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 righteous men to be found in the city, and I’m going to believe he will act accordingly in the future.

      (Quote)

  13. jacqueline says:

    I was recently on Memorial night tripped up into admitting I was now a Bible Student. If there were gates of hell, that’s what it was like for me. Everyone was upset. I quietly submitted to their letting me know I would miss my grandchildren growing up etc. They wanted to know why I was doing that to the family. I let them know it is their religion (not Bible or me) who says they cannot deal with me because I have left JW and have chosen to worship as brothers with them with BS. Imentioned Melchezedek and abraham. Juda and Israel. Jesus apostle and the others doing miracles in Jesus name, when he said leave them alone, if they are for me they can’t be against me. Also Elijah, but there were 7000 that had not bent their knee, most probably not knowing who thew others were. In other words there has always been more than one set of people pleasing to Jehovah. Light bulbs went over their heads.A week later I am getting Skype calls and grands are standing in front of camera encouraged to talk to me.
    So, now it is out, I feel free and they will get over it. My 8 other brothers and sisters says to each his own, because noone could get past my gentle questions. I felt bad that they are religious but not spiritual. The normal JW rhetoric does not hold up when they are confronted with strong reasoning. I did however suffer an asthma attack from the onslaughter. Recuperating well and have left it in the hands of the LORD.
    Thanks for listen. your sister in Christ

      (Quote)

    • Dennis says:

      Wow Sister Jacqueline,

      That could have been bad but it sounds as if it has turned out OK for you. No doubt your loving attitude helped defuse the situation, but how stressful. I hope you continue to recuperate well from your Asthma attack. I’ll mention you in my prayers tonight.

      I myself was drawn into a conversation with my dad tonight. There were many subjects touched on as he seemed to be bouncing around a bit. Of course, instead of dealing with the issues from the bible, my mom said I was self righteous (because I thought it was the responsibility of each Christian to “make sure of all things” as led by the Holy Spirit and not rely on an organization to do it for you) and dad said that there is something wrong with my mind. He said the things I’m studying is warping my brain. LOL We decided to focus on one subject at a time so I said, why don’t we start with you proving from the bible that the WTBTS is Gods modern day organization and is being used exclusively by him today. So he is going to put some things into writing and I’ll answer in writing. This should be interesting. Also mom was adamant the society did not say that Jesus is the mediator only for the 144,000. She said Jesus IS HER MEDIATOR. I emailed her and dad several quotes on this tonight. I have a feeling that by tomorrow they’ll have adjusted their thoughts to match the societies quotes I sent tonight. Strange isn’t it.

      Your Brother,

      Dennis

        (Quote)

      • greybeard says:

        You are fortunate Dennis your parents will talk to you. I think you should send them a link to jwfacts.com and tell them to try and find something that isn’t a fact on there. Maybe order Crisis of Conscience and give it to your dad. You might be able to turn them around.

          (Quote)

        • Dennis says:

          “I think you should send them a link to jwfacts.com…….Maybe order Crisis of Conscience and give it to your dad.”

          OK, that’s not happening! They would absolutely not even look at this for a second. The conversation was initiated by my father when he said, “Son, I sure wish you would come back to the meetings.” Since he opened the door I walked through it. Hopefully I’ll be able to carry on a topical conversation with him over the next few weeks. The main reason for that is so he’ll see where I’m coming from. I am not sure it would be a good thing for him to get to disenchanted with the organization and leave. My opinion is that he might just lose all desire for spiritual things (based on his past track record). I’m not sure he would be able to turn the corner and be able to worship YHWH outside the confines of a hierarchical controlling organization. For many, it’s hard not to have an organization between them, GOD and the Lord. The organization is actually part of that relationship.

          Dennis

            (Quote)

      • jacqueline says:

        Dennis, thank you so much for your prayers. I am still letting it circulate among my over 200 JW relatives. This is just a really bad 2 weeks. I have been told by my sons not to talk the Bible or bring any literature in their home but I am welcome and they have been calling and Skypeing me. I asked if their wives could not bring up religion and I wouldn’t have to give an answer. So UPDATE!UPDATE! UPDATE! I will admit right now I am a black Mother, so that being said! I have put all of my children and their wives in their proper God given place,Child and PARENT!! Honor your Father and your mother. I called in the big Dog, their Dad, who left the JW after 40yrs. He will stand for them coming against him(although they won’t to his face) but he is fed up with their disrespect of me.Everyone is acting Sane now!!
        The dogs and the cats are acting sane. It was not pretty.
        I will see my grandchildren and they are even offering to come and bring them to see me.
        My sister and brothers (8 all JW and elders) have let my children know we don’t play that in this family, never have shunned and never will. So the tables have been turned. There is fear of Jehovah in my children now. DID IT THE OLD BLACK FAMILY WAY! TRY IT, IT WORKS. We don’t turn our back on family!

          (Quote)

        • Amos says:

          Dear sister Jacqueline,
          This is a good outcome for you, by the sounds of it. Yes, you have been in my prayers also, & still are, as are all the brethren here on “struggle”.
          I am having the feeling that there are momentous times at hand, & this may mean that families WILL stick together, rather than obey the UNfaithful slave (GB), one can only pray that this is the case.
          Remember, you are very precious to our loving “Heavenly Father”, as are ALL those who are doing their best to serve Him faithfully.
          I have been contemplating contacting my estranged JW sister, we haven’t spoken for about 7 years, & I’m getting promptings to contact her. I may try to do this very soon.

          Christian greetings to you & your family from your brother in Australia.

          Amos

            (Quote)

  14. Simpleman says:

    “The normal JW rhetoric does not hold up when they are confronted with strong reasoning”

    Jacqueline its one of the reasons public debate isn’t allowed, (putting aside biblical fundamentals i.e. the the trinity) its 1914 paraphernalia do not hold up to scrutiny, and I think they know it.

      (Quote)

  15. margarite says:

    What exactly is the Sacred Secret?

      (Quote)

    • greybeard says:

      Hi Margarite,

      I don’t know if I would use the term “Sacred Secret” myself but JJ is referring to the knowledge we have of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Truth About The Truth (TTATT) In a way it is kinda like a secret because we can’t just blurt it out around our JW family and friends. I hope this answers your question.

        (Quote)

  16. Warning says:

    Secrets are to be kept. Just share the truth! (John 1:17) Those looking for Sacred Secrets will search and find them here! (Eccl 3:6) Be careful not to stumble others they may loose their faith! (Mtt 13:53-58) Concentrate on what is essential for salvation. (Acts 4:12) Follow Jesus like your his shadow. (1 pet 2:21) Wait on Jehovah! When reading in the Watchtower about the prophets replace “christendom” with “so called faithful slave” and you will understand! (Titus 3:10) Jehovah’s Witnesses are Gods Household, we just aren’t a corporation! (Romans 10:13) (Isa 43:10) Stay with Jah and ignore anything coming from the Watchtower that are not healthful words. Continue your struggle! Jehovah God will soon figuratively part the red sea!!!!!

      (Quote)

    • greybeard says:

      Gods household started by Russell and Rutherford forsaking all others? I don’t think so but your entitled to your opinion.

        (Quote)

    • Dennis says:

      Warning you said,

      “Jehovah’s Witnesses are Gods Household, we just aren’t a corporation! (Romans 10:13) (Isa 43:10)”

      Dear friend, this is a bold claim. I assume that you mean that they are exclusively Yahweh’s household. The 2 scriptures listed do not support such a concept. Romans 10:13 can and does apply to ALL who call on the name of Yahweh and does not indicate that you must be within the organizational fence of the WTBTS to do so and as a consequence be saved. Holding a thought such as that based on Rom. 10:13 is reading into scripture that which is not there!

      Isa. 43:10 also supports no such concept. This scripture applys to Israel. Isa. 43:1-2 establishs this nicely. Verses 14-15 records God promise that the Babylonian conquerors of the Jewish people will themselves be conquered and exiled. Again, this does not apply to Jehovahs Witnesses today unless one highjacks a passage of scripture that was written to and applies to ancient Israel, Gods special possession. Christians today are called to be witnesses of Jesus (and by extension, the Father).

      Acts 1:8
      8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

      Since the premise of your entire post rest on the assumption that Jehovahs Witnesses are the household of God, would you mind providing scriptural proof (other than the two scriptures already discussed) for that position? I’m not looking for anecdotal evidence but actual scriptural proof.

      BTW: I have no quarrel with an enlightened JW staying in the organization if that’s what they choose to do nor do I take issue if conscious dictates they leave.

      Looking forward to your reply.

      Your brother in Christ,

      Dennis

        (Quote)

      • greybeard says:

        What I fear for the “household” of Jehovah’s Witnesses is they will reject Christ when he returns in support of their false God the Governing Body. I picture Christ returning and saving Israel from the millions poised to destroy her right now. Ezekiel has prophesied this clearly that God will do this not for them but for his own name sake. The JW’s are asleep to this. Their oil ran out in 1914. They say Christ returned then. The Governing Body had already began ruling as KINGS over Christ belongings. This is very sad for me because most of my family and friends are JW’s.

          (Quote)

  17. JJ says:

    @Dennis – you raise some very valid questions. I’d would like to do more personal study on Isaiah 43:10-12. I want to hear Warning’s response to this point.

    @Warning – Thank you for sharing your views on this. I felt the same way for a time but am moving more towards the difficult realization that the WTS never has had any more or less “spiritual oil” than other members of Christendom. There are many theocratic and well-intentioned men that are Witnesses. But I believe that they do not have the corner on the market as they have so boldly claimed.

      (Quote)

  18. jacqueline says:

    Brothers,
    It has been almost 3 weeks since my being outted. So far my daughter-in-law is calling, I accept that as an apology. My other daughter-in-law is coming up to In. from Ga with baby for a week and I am going back with her to Mytrle Beach vacation. My 8 brothers and sisters are waiting on me in Al.We are going to have a nice dinner. One of my daughter-in-law’s mother nor family are JW, and she was outraged that her daughter would think of disrespecting me. Her brothers 40 year old men thinks this religion is crazy to tell someone to shun their mother. It helped to let the non witness members know what this religion is saying in a time when we all need each other economically and emotionally. Something is about to happen, it seems.
    One Son and wife I will extend the Olive Branch, they are diehard GB worshippoers but have read and agree with Raymond Franz books, go figure.
    I update this to let you see another side if you stand up. Now I don’t have to hide my convention weekends, they know I will be at a 3day BS convention in Chgo May28-30. That I will be at my General convention for June 24-30. I told my roofers (2) brothers this weekend. One will sit in on the BS study on Wednesday nite on Skype. The other a 63 yr witness said as long as you are still worshipping Jehovah we are brothers. So being upfront for me after much prayer is working out. I know I am going to hit a bump somewhere when I get down South, but my oldest son said “HE GOT MY BACK”.(:) I was almost having a heart attack and Jesus came to my aid. I begged him to help me. But I love being able to come here and talk to all of you on JWStruggle.In Christ’s Love, Jacqueline

      (Quote)

  19. JJ says:

    Jacqueline

    I really appreciate your story and the updates. A couple comments back you mentioned this:

    “I mentioned Melchezedek and abraham. Juda and Israel. Jesus apostle and the others doing miracles in Jesus name, when he said leave them alone, if they are for me they can’t be against me. Also Elijah, but there were 7000 that had not bent their knee, most probably not knowing who thew others were. In other words there has always been more than one set of people pleasing to Jehovah.”

    When you have time, could you please expound on this reasoning? I for one would love to hear/read a well spoken explanation of these points.

    Pretty please w sugar on top lol??? :-)

      (Quote)

    • greybeard says:

      This scripture comes to mind:

      1 Corinthians 12:5, “And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.” [NASB]

        (Quote)

    • jacqueline says:

      I forgot to mention the Samaritans existing and accepted even as Jesus was one the earth. Point being Jehovah can be with more than one group existing at the same time.
      But I am writing to say Grandmommy passed Monday after a long week of waiting.
      That means relatives that are witnesses are flying in for Friday funeral. My sons, elder relatives. It is going to be stressful since I am out of the closet. This has been a hostile and bad time for me since I was outted at memorial, so now I guess they will come in for the kill or they could extend the olive branch. I am just going to try and protect my mental and emotional health. This will be the first face to face with so many relatives since Memorial so I will pray and please pray for me. I am not taking this very well. Thanks. Funeral is friday, right across the street from KH where grandmommy used to go.
      I will come back Friday night to give an update. Maybe there will be a blessing here. I believe all things take place to bring about the will of the Father. And in the words of Jesus he said “take care I have conquered the world”. See you Friday. In Christ

        (Quote)

      • andrew says:

        Our prayers will be with you, Jacqueline

          (Quote)

        • jacqueline says:

          Thanks Andrew, I guess because I am a woman I am reacting with deep heartbreaking and nervousness. Also I know now why you should praythat tribulations don’t happen in the “winter times of your life”. If I was younger I could stand up to this, but now I am having to learn to lean on Jehovah. Their father is supporting me and some relatives that are not witnesses so, with Holy Spirit which I have asked the Father for, we will all make it through the funeral and grieve grandmommy. I think this website and the dear brothers on it is an answer to my prayer for calmness. As I go about my day I have audio playing, from the various BS talks, that helps. I am so sorry to appear so weak here but I am not taking this well at all. Having had a heart attack last Sept. because of smoke inhalation has probably affected my emotions too. So, if I can get through tomorrow, I will be able to just rest and protect myself from emotional harm. I have a lot of fleshly brothers and sisters, but I can only confide in my one sister. Everyone else is an Elder. I don’t know really who I am talking to but I needed to write. Thanks for listening. I saw grandmommy take her last breath. Others (3 others) in the room weren’t aware of just what was going on so they didn’t see it.I just don’t think I can take any confrontations from my son or any JW tomorrow. I will keep prayer that Jehovah please let it not happen. Maybe he will show mercy and let everyone realize that sin has brought about this confusion and that Satan never goes to sleep. I think I will use that phrase if someone says something about my not being a witness anymore, maybe that will halt it until I can get out of there. With tears I am just talking and I feel confortable discussing it here with my friends.Thanks so much for listening.
          Your sister in Christ. Jacqueline

            (Quote)

          • Anonymous says:

            My prayers are with you also Sister Jacqueline.

            Ps.55:22; “Cast your burden on the Lord, and He will support you; He will never allow the righteous to be shaken.”

            This one verse, has brought myself and many others through some very dark & stormy times.

            Amos

              (Quote)

          • rus virgil says:

            Jacqueline,
            I am here and I am listening
            and I am sorry for loosing your grandma
            I know you know that Jesus will resurrect those in tombs
            28. Do not be surprised and wonder at this, for the time is coming when all those who are in the tombs shall hear His voice,
            …your grandma will hear Jesus voice , this is the HOPE

            regarding the tomorrow’s meeting together with your relatives/elders let you not fight with them regarding the “organization”
            let it be a day “of rest” for you and of remembrance of our Creator .(Eklesiaste 7:2)
            If someone will try to “attack” you, you can say that you are striving yourself to “remain/abide in the teaching (of Christ) in order to have both Father and Son – 2John 1:9 … and that is your wish that they will strive themselves also….
            I pray YHWH for your strengthening and caring for you .
            My love is also with you,
            rus virgil

              (Quote)

          • jacqueline says:

            Rus thanks, I listen to Br. Montague’s talk about family suffering and he reminded us of what Jehovah must have felt when his family (satan, adam, eve) misrepresented and turned against him. He mentioned it is best to be righteous instead of right. I will hug my son and kiss him regardless of his stance because I don’t want to die and he think I was hurt by his actions. This is the first time he has visited and his father and I will see him since his many outburst by phone. So in Christian love I can’t show my hurt. I have dealt with many children who’s parents died while the child was showing anger. The remorse is not something I want for him. I love him with my heart and soul. I am a little stronger since this morning. My oldest son has called but won’t be there, he is a comfort. The one elder relative visited today with his wife and sister. So it seems since it willnot be a witness funeral some are doing condolences today. So tomorrow might be less stressful and a time to go to the house of mourning and as you say reflect. Thanks for reading and reply. I hope that seeing how it plays out when you tell will help someone else decide if they want to. That is why I update. I was tricked into telling, I am a Bible Student but by summer’s end everyone should have adjusted to me and their father. People don’t like change and it takes time for humans to adjust. I am looking forward to a 3day BS convention in Chicago May28-30 and the General in June. Until tomorrow. Jacqueline

              (Quote)

          • Anonymous says:

            Yhanks anonymous, That verse will get me through. The worst of the worst has happened. I really can’t even talk about it now but I will make it with the help of Jehovah. Thank you, In Christian Love Jacqueline

              (Quote)

  20. JJ says:

    Werner Bible Commentary says this about that passage:

    “Although a variety of spiritual gifts existed, all had the same source—God’s spirit. The spiritual gifts had been granted to function in a unified manner, with no gift working at cross-purposes with the other gifts. (12:4)

    Continuing to emphasize this unity, Paul, after calling attention to the existence of a variety of services or ministries, added that there is the same Lord. The varied ministries related to looking after the material needs of fellow believers. Help had to be provided to poor widows and others who may have been impoverished on account of persecution, natural disasters, or other adversities. Those rendering varied services needed to be able to evaluate needs and to have the essential skills to render appropriate aid in an impartial manner. Through the operation of the holy spirit, the Lord Jesus Christ enhanced the abilities of those who ministered and guided their efforts. (12:5)”

      (Quote)

Leave a Reply to Simpleman Cancel reply

Website Apps