We all know that the number of annual Memorial Partakers is on the rise. The question is how many and how fast? And what does a steady rise in Partakers mean? What could it mean? WTcomments on YouTube did a fascinating video on this a couple years ago and it is still quite valid. The following is a summary and amplification of its content:

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Witnesses teach that the number going to heaven are 144,000. It was believed for many years (about 70!) that the calling of anointed ones was closed in 1935. Partakers dropped for some years, but in recent times it again began increasing. Then in May 1, 2007 the Watchtower made a change and said this:

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“As time has gone by, some Christians baptized after 1935 have had witness borne to them that they have the heavenly hope. (Romans 8:16, 17) Thus, it appears that we cannot set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends.

How should a person be viewed who has determined in his heart that he is now anointed and begins to partake of the emblems at the Memorial? He should not be judged. The matter is between him and Jehovah. (Romans 14:12) However, genuine anointed Christians do not demand special attention.” (w07 5/1 p. 31)

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Here are the statistics for partakers over the last few years up to 2008:

2005  – 8524

2006  – 8758

2007  – 9105

2008  – 9986

But then 2008 saw the greatest increase of partakers in living memory, 881 more than in 2007, an almost 10% increase. Yet Jehovah’s Witnesses only grew 2.1% worldwide. The ramifications are serious, since guests and those DFed or DA’d are NOT counted, eliminating the so-called “flake factor”. So active Witnesses, many in positions of responsibility are bucking the logic of their doctrine and following what their heart tells them- that they are going to heaven.  The number 144,000 isn’t budging- but it is bulging. As Witnesses our belief has been this:

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“For 19 centuries there was only the one calling, the heavenly one, with Jehovah being very selective as to who would serve with his Son to make up the Kingdom government. Many would be invited but only a precious few chosen. (Matthew 22:2, 14) In time the prescribed but limited number of 144,000 would be reached.  After this no more would be anointed by holy spirit as witness that they had the heavenly hope, unless, in a rare occurrence, the unfaithfulness of one of the remaining ‘chosen ones’ made a replacement necessary.”  (w82 2/15 p. 30 par. 14)

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This would mean then that in some 1,900 years after Jesus, there has been fewer than 144,000 faithful Christians. Since the 2007 Watchtower said no one can “set a specific date for when the calling of Christians to the heavenly hope ends”, what does this mean?  2008 had the largest amount of partakers since 1977, there has been no significant decrease (on average) for 30 years. Yet the following year in 2009 the Watchtower printed this:

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“While the number of anointed ones on the earth has decreased over the decades, the number of the other sheep has increased.” (w09 2/15 pp. 27-28 par. 14)

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Huh? So how do we explain the large jump in partakers between 2007 and 2008?

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“Some have recognized that they partook as an emotional response to perhaps physical or mental strain. But they came to see that they really were not called to heavenly life. They asked for God’s merciful understanding.  There is no need for any of us to be concerned if a person begins to partake of the emblems or ceases to do so. It really is not up to us whether someone actually has been anointed with holy spirit and called to heavenly life or not. Recall Jesus’ solid assurance: “I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep.” Just as assuredly, Jehovah knows those whom he has chosen as spiritual sons. There is every reason to believe that the number of anointed ones will continue to decline as advanced age and unforeseen occurrences end their earthly lives.” (w96 8/15 p. 31)

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The WT said some partook of the emblems due to emotional strain? Really? The implications though of this are serious because it contradicts the evidence used to prove we are in the “Last Days”.  Notice that just a few years before, in the 2000 Watchtower it stated this under the sub-heading “Six Convincing Lines Of Evidence”:

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“Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller.” (w00 1/15 p. 13 par. 18)

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Are Jehovah’s Witnesses experiencing the beginnings of a schism, not from disgruntled ex-members but from the most faithful of their core membership? Is it possible to reconcile the literal number of 144,000 with all the anointed Christians in history? Especially since well over 10,000 are alive today? Considering there were over 50,000 partakers in 1935 that would leave less than 100,000 for the previous 1900 years. Will the Watchtower shift its teaching again to compensate? And will that be new light from Jehovah God? Or will it be from men?  They are in a corner- either the number is symbolic, or the Witnesses that nibble and sip are frauds. Or could it be that the Great Crowd is actually a secondary group of ones that will serve God and Christ in heaven, “before the throne” in heaven as the scripture says?

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BTW, for those of you that are wondering, here is an updated report on Memorial partakers:

YEARPARTAKERS% OF INC
20058,524-0.50
20068,7582.75
20079,1053.96
20089,9869.68
200910,8578.72
201011,2023.18
201111,8245.5
2012??????

My question and my proposal is now this: What if those of us in the “Conscious Class” that are struggling to discern what to do and how to serve Jehovah and effect change within the organization set a goal- the goal being for at least 2,000 of us to begin partaking by Memorial 2012. This is a little over one year away. What if we also then explained our beliefs to other fellow Witnesses at that time, in the appropriate way and at the right time. Would this cause a domino effect? Would others that have been afraid to come forward see that Jehovah God was moving his people towards change via his Holy Spirit? This is perhaps just a dream, maybe only a crazy notion that will be easily dismissed. Let’s pray about this. Let’s see what God and Christ, and the Holy Spirit say.

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39 Comments on Memorial 2012, Part 1

  1. jacqueline says:

    Hi, thank you so much for that posting. The problem would be solved maybe if what was always taught on this was in vogue.
    There are some invited to the marriage and “Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s Marriage”.Rev.19:6-10 says this is voices of a “great crowd”. They are honored guests at the wedding. The only hope open for Christians now id the heavenly hope and out of those he will choose 144,000 to be a part of the bride. We all hope to be the bride, but some of us have not been called and realize we are of the “Great Crowd” that will witness the marriage of the Lamb. More on this is on the friends website. This is what I was taught in the 50’s as a witness but everyone was in before 1920 in my congregation, so I was Bible Student influenced. But all of the ethnic congregations in the south was talk that. There was only 1 Circuit for the whole ethnic population. Alabama Circuit 18 had mostly old heads. So this is an old point that was changed in the 60’s. Just my two cent’s worth. Sis.Jacqueline

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  2. lurk says:

    Didn’t Jesus say to continue doing this in memory of him, so shouldn’t we all partake ?
    I think I have to partake, I feel it’s a command from our Master. But I don’t want to go to heaven, it’s this wrong?
    I feel that the option of going to heaven was off the table for me, so I never considered it. I would preferred to stay on earth.

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  3. Jolly Roger says:

    JJ, your piece is, as usual, interesting; albeit, perhaps a bit stark in places.

    “They are in a corner- either the number is symbolic, or the Witnesses that nibble and sip are frauds.” Whoa! Without a doubt some of those leaving lip prints on the wine glass are out and out frauds, certainly some might be, or have become, “unbalanced” mentally to the point where they are no longer to considered rational adults, and, indeed, some might simply be a bit hungry and thirsty at the moment. My point is, who are we to say which one is which? Jesus gives a warning to those who would use the symbols frivolously, to claim that they have been called when they haven’t, but I don’t recall Jesus saying that a partaker’s fellow humans were going to be the ones to decide fraud.

    Sometimes in moments of great fervor or emotionality, humans do really stupid things. There have been numerous (and recurring) news stories about tourists going into a kind of religious based insanity when they visit “Holy Sites” in Jerusalem. These “seizures” seem to occur at random and, often times, to folks who never seemed particularly zealous towards religion. Yet, somehow, being in Israel and seeing the actual “Burial Tomb of Jesus”, the “Manger in Bethlehem”, “the spot on the bank of the Jordan where Jesus received his Baptism and so forth has a tendency to make folks go crazy and they begin to believe that they are Biblical characters reborn, and other whacko acts.

    The fact that since 2006 the number of partakers has risen really doesn’t come as much of a shock to me. Remember, the times are not getting any better, in fact, they will continue to get worse to such a point that they threaten the existence of even the anointed, the pressure on all of us is rising.

    But I’m not saying that is the only possible answer for the increase. Put yourself in the enemy’s position, this group of people are very important, so how do you reduce their importance? You can’t kill them, or imprison them, that only makes them stronger. You might be able to extort them though loved ones, but history kinda shows that isn’t too successful an approach either. So what do you do? Well, one tried and true method is to introduce a flood of counterfeits, until the value of the entire concept drops to zero. That is a ploy the Nazi’s tried against England in WW2. The Nazi’s had developed counterfeit British Pound notes that even the Bank of England couldn’t tell, and if the Nazi’s had been able to finish their plan, the Brits monetary system would have crashed. No one would have had any confidence in Britain to pay for stuff and their commerce would have dried up immediately.

    Again, I’m not saying that any or all of these reasons explain why there is a counter-intuitive increase in the number of wine sippers; but remember, true Christians are at war with a enemy of the utmost evil nature, and when compared with us, has virtually limitless power.

    ” the goal being for at least 2,000 of us to begin partaking by Memorial 2012. ” JJ, consider your request here. If you feel that you should partake of the emblems because Jesus has called you, fine, but that is between you and him. However, may I suggest a rather tasty Cabernet? Now, if you are wanting to partake in order to prove a point, or for some sort of shock effect, or as a way to get JWs to listen to you, or any other reason known or unknown to man, may I further suggest: don’t. This is very important and powerful stuff we are dealing with here, and not to be trifled with.

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    • FutureMan says:

      I want to ask all of you a very important and direct question?

      And only each one of you can honestly answer this question in his or her heart.

      First I will say that Jesus commanded his followers to do this in remembrance of him in the way that he prescribed to his apostles at his evening meal at which time he had also instituted the New Covenant and a covenant for a Kingdom.

      Now the question I want to ask you is this, which is really a two-part question: Who today are telling Christians that they are not to partake of the emblems (the bread and the wine)?

      And where is their scriptural basis for saying so?

      Or indeed to ask another question in line with these two questions, is where is the scripture where Jesus said that his followers should not partake of the “Lord’s Evening Meal” which he had instituted in the first place and commanded his followers to keep on doing this in remembrance of him?

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      • greybeard says:

        Great questions!

        You asked. “Who today are telling Christians that they are not to partake of the emblems (the bread and the wine)? I for one only know of the Jehovah’s Witness’s that do this. They have no scriptural basis for this. I believe this scripture applies to them, Matthew 23:13, “”Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.”

        You asked, “where is the scripture where Jesus said that his followers should not partake of the “Lord’s Evening Meal” which he had instituted in the first place and commanded his followers to keep on doing this in remembrance of him?”

        My answer: Rutherford 1:1, Haven’t you read it?

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    • Anonymous says:

      Jolly Roger:
      JJ, your piece is, as usual, interesting; albeit, perhaps a bit stark in places.

      “They are in a corner- either the number is symbolic, or the Witnesses that nibble and sip are frauds.”Whoa!Without a doubt some of those leaving lip prints on the wine glass are out and out frauds, certainly some might be, or have become, “unbalanced” mentally to the point where they are no longer to considered rational adults, and, indeed, some might simply be a bit hungry and thirsty at the moment.My point is, who are we to say which one is which?Jesus gives a warning to those who would use the symbols frivolously, to claim that they have been called when they haven’t, but I don’t recall Jesus saying that a partaker’s fellow humans were going to be the ones to decide fraud.

      Sometimes in moments of great fervor or emotionality, humans do really stupid things.There have been numerous (and recurring) news stories about tourists going into a kind of religious based insanity when they visit “Holy Sites” in Jerusalem.These “seizures” seem to occur at random and, often times, to folks who never seemed particularly zealous towards religion.Yet, somehow, being in Israel and seeing the actual “Burial Tomb of Jesus”, the “Manger in Bethlehem”, “the spot on the bank of the Jordan where Jesus received his Baptism and so forth has a tendency to make folks go crazy and they begin to believe that they are Biblical characters reborn, and other whacko acts.

      The fact that since 2006 the number of partakers has risen really doesn’t come as much of a shock to me.Remember, the times are not getting any better, in fact, they will continue to get worse to such a point that they threaten the existence of even the anointed, the pressure on all of us is rising.

      But I’m not saying that is the only possible answer for the increase.Put yourself in the enemy’s position, this group of people are very important, so how do you reduce their importance?You can’t kill them, or imprison them, that only makes them stronger.You might be able to extort them though loved ones, but history kinda shows that isn’t too successful an approach either.So what do you do?Well, one tried and true method is to introduce a flood of counterfeits, until the value of the entire concept drops to zero.That is a ploy the Nazi’s tried against England in WW2.The Nazi’s had developed counterfeit British Pound notes that even the Bank of England couldn’t tell, and if the Nazi’s had been able to finish their plan, the Brits monetary system would have crashed.No one would have had any confidence in Britain to pay for stuff and their commerce would have dried up immediately.

      Again, I’m not saying that any or all of these reasons explain why there is a counter-intuitive increase in the number of wine sippers; but remember, true Christians are at war with a enemy of the utmost evil nature, and when compared with us, has virtually limitless power.

      ” the goal being for at least 2,000 of us to begin partaking by Memorial 2012. ”JJ, consider your request here.If you feel that you should partake of the emblems because Jesus has called you, fine, but that is between you and him.However, may I suggest a rather tasty Cabernet?Now, if you are wanting to partake in order to prove a point, or for some sort of shock effect, or as a way to get JWs to listen to you, or any other reason known or unknown to man, may I further suggest: don’t.This is very important and powerful stuff we are dealing with here, and not to be trifled with.

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      • JJ says:

        Jolly Roger

        You are quite correct about partaking of the body and blood of Christ not being a joking matter. The intention was not to sandbag the numbers, but to ask a “what if” question. What if the thousands of us that have awakened to TTATT and realized now that there is truly one hope (Ephesians 4:4) and began to partake? How would it be explained? How would the WT society spin it?

        Also realize the post you are commenting on is something I wrote well over a year ago, and my knowledge and my conscience has expanded somewhat and if pressed to write a similar article today it would be slightly different.

        I do know this, and that is that my conscience and the Holy Spirit tell me I must be a partaker of the body of Christ. He is my head, my mediator, and the only judge over men. Romans has two simple verses that say this:

        Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation. (Romans 8:1, NWT)

        For all who are led by God’s spirit, these are God’s sons. (Romans 8:14, NWT)

        Furthermore, 1 John 5:1 reads:

        Everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born from God, and everyone who loves the one that caused to be born loves him who has been born from that one.

        These verses and many others tell me that I must openly confess Jesus as my Lord; for me personally, it cannot be any other way.

        In Christ,
        JJ

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  4. Difficult Places Common to Scripture says:

    I understand the desire to see positive change in the Organization but to encourage 2000 friends to partake in order to possibly force change is NOT what partaking is all about. It is a private matter between God and the individual. Any who felt they should partake but did not because the Governing Body was discouraging it can now do so. But making it a way to force change diminishes the Memorial.

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    • Max says:

      Just the fact that one has to resort to this tactic to effect change in a supposed “god’s channel” of communication would seem to indicate that perhaps the person with this idea should disassociate themselves with said organization… The Watchtower unabashedly appoints itself as an intermediary between it’s followers and Christ by determining who get’s to be resurrected on earth, etc. The WT’s flagrant misapplication of Mat. 24:45-47 and it’s constant recitation of these scriptures has it’s follower’s duped into thinking that their salvation depends on this organization.

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  5. andrew says:

    I suspect that if the number of partakers continues to increase, the organization will discontinue counting partakers. Probably in the next few years the elders will receive a letter instructing them that since partaking is a personal matter between the individual and Jehovah there is no need to inform the branch of how many partook.
    The organization will continue to do things or not do things according to what is in the best interest of the leaders of the organization. That is how things in Christendom have almost always worked.

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  6. greybeard says:

    Wow,

    I think Lurk got the point JJ was making. I do not think JR, DPCS and A got it. Maybe JJ wasn’t clear enough but what he believes is that ALL CHRISTIANS are COMMANDED to partake. Where does it say anything any different in the Bible? Jesus said unless you do this YOU HAVE NO LIFR IN YOU. JJ never recommended being a “fraud”… how did you come up with that? He didn’t say to eat the bread and drink the wine to satisfy our hunger. YOU GUYS TOOK HIM WRONG. JJ has recently came to the conclusion, I believe recently, that ALL Christians are commanded to partake. Maybe he wasn’t clear on that but I know what he is getting at. Now if one does not claim to be a follower of Christ, a true believer, a Christian, then he is unworthy. However ALL JW’s claim to be Christian and this is where he is going with this idea. He said, “those of us in the “Conscious Class” meaning THOSE THAT UNDERSTAND NOW THIS IS A CHRISTIAN COMMANDMENT NOT AN OPTION. Maybe he wasn’t clear enough about this, If he is unclear to you, ask him to explain. Of course he is not saying to partake if you don’t think you are a Christian. You guys took him wrong.

    Your brother,
    Greybeard

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    • Jolly Roger says:

      GB, One more time, If you or JJ or anybody else feels the need to partake, have at it. And, as long as we are picking nits, why stay with a “Kosher wine”? Further, why only once a year? Jesus just said to do this in remembrance of him, I don’t recall it being dictated as an annual thing, timed to the Earth’s rotation around the sun. Why not have it monthly? Or Weekly, or go All-Catholic and have it every mass? Better yet, why not have it every 50 years, i.e. on a Jubilee year, i.e. the year when all debts are forgiven? The Bible doesn’t indicate that the menu served at the first memorial was just bread and wine, so where’s my potatoes? (Oh yeah, still in Peru at the time, never mind) The purpose was to have a meal together, a meal with bread and wine, of which the bread and wine were symbolic of shed blood and ruined flesh, accomplished on humankind’s behalf.

      What JJ and you both are doing is trying a back-door approach to the same old argument: the GB of the JWO are fooling everybody, and they think that they are better than everybody else, setting themselves up as a different class of Christians, and they twist the scriptures to keep lording it over the rest of us True Christians who are trapped in this mindless hamster wheel of brainwashing. Yet, you lay a claim of membership to a separate class that is a better than the mere brain-dead babblers class, you are in a class of the (can I use the word “exalted” here?) “Conscious Class” meaning THOSE THAT UNDERSTAND NOW THIS IS A CHRISTIAN COMMANDMENT NOT AN OPTION.” – and follow it with that ooh, nasty of nasties a (cue the scary organ music) “judgmental statement”: “Of course he is not saying to partake if you don’t think you are a Christian.” I’m sorry GB, but if all the work and effort and sacrifice and pain and hurt and self-denial and study and preaching, and humiliations and tears that I, and many others like me, have gone thru and expended in our lives in an effort to do what is right in Jehovah’s eyes aren’t enough to qualify me as your brand of “Christian”, because I didn’t try to force my belief on a KH full of people who are just minding their own business all I can say is: good.

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      • greybeard says:

        JR,

        I’m not trying to do anything with the JW’s at all. No “back door” anything. All I am trying to do on this post is understand what JJ is getting at. As far as your rant about partaking, The passover was a yearly event. It sounds to me like you do not believe all Christians are commanded to partake, maybe I’m wrong. That is your right to believe whatever you want to. You act as if I believe you are not Christian saying “my brand of christian”. I have no brand of christian. I don’t know you and even if I did, the last thing I would do is judge my brother.

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  7. greybeard says:

    It’s as if you still have the JW mentality on this. Two classes of Christians, those called and those not called. ALL CHRISTIANS ARE CALLED my brothers. Is this not so?

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    • Jolly Roger says:

      GB, do not get hung up on the “called” part. You may be one of those who has been, or will be, called; and guess what, then you will have to wash my feet. Have a nice night.

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      • greybeard says:

        I’m not hung up on anything my brother. It’s simple, “nobody comes to me unless my father draws them.” All christians are called. You said, “and guess what, then you will have to wash my feet. Have a nice night.” I think you are joking but this could be taken as degrading me. What I am commanded to do is forgive you. I am not commanded to “wash your feet”. That was a example of humility and love. When I can walk on water I will wash your feet by making it rain dogs and cats over your head and wash your entire body! Hows that sound?

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  8. greybeard says:

    If his spirit is guiding YOU then his spirit has born witness with your spirit has it not??? Then why not obey this command? Because we were programed not to? I agree 100% with JJ

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  9. greybeard says:

    The only thing I wonder about is if I myself am a Christian. I would like to believe I am. It is because of my JW programing that I wonder. I believe in Christ, he is my mediator, I do my best to apply his teachings in my life. Have I sold everything and gave it to the poor yet? NOPE, have you?
    I try to give charity, I would give the shirt off my back to anyone that asked for it. I turn the other cheek. As far as partaking, never have. For two years I have felt I need to do this because it is a command. Will i at the Kingdom Hall? Right now, I’m not sure if that is the right place to do this. I believe they are false prophets. Does it matter where I do it? I don’t know. I really don’t think it does as long as it is done. If we don’t do it, we are all DEAD in the eyes of God. That is the truth.

    Your brother,
    Greybeard

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    • Dennis says:

      Meet with the Bible Students in your area if you would like to partake but feel it best not to do it at the Kingdom Hall. You should check with them as to the day of their Memorial as it is not the same exact day as the JW’s. IMO one thing is certain, if you partake at the KH you need to be prepared to be questioned by the elders (which I feel is way out of bounds for them)!

      Dennis

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      • jacqueline says:

        Dennis I met with the Bible Students for the first time and so did two other brothers. We didn’t partake then but I personnally will next time. So, that is a very good suggestion to others, I think. Thanks for that.

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    • Mae says:

      I observed the memorial at my home last year and I did partake of the bread and wine. I read the scriptures where Jesus ordered the observance and I said a blessing over the wine and bread. I observed it alone because I no longer go to the hall. I do think it applies to all of Jesus’ followers.

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  10. greybeard says:

    Correction, maybe you did get the point Andrew. I reread your post. You said maybe, “the organization will discontinue counting partakers”. I really do not see the org ever doing that. That is a huge thing to them. Like counting those at the hall and turning in service time. They want to see the numbers. They will just explain it to fit there understanding. Stop counting? Never

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  11. greybeard says:

    Sorry about the rant, I just felt the need to respond

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  12. JJ says:

    Brothers I thank you for your thoughtful comments and loving counsel. My comments below will be appended to the original post later for clarity. “Part 1″ was in the title because there is a lot more to say on this topic, but the fault is mine for not thinking this through and being more specific.

    1. DO NOT partake of the emblems if you do not feel you have the heavenly hope. I am not encouraging anyone to do a “fake out” just for spite. The Lord’s Evening Meal is the most important day of the year. It always has been for me and always will be.

    2. The scriptural proof is mounting in my mind that the Great Crowd is actually serving before Jehovah’s throne, which is of course in heaven. I have been researching the Greek words hieron and naos, and have more studying to do and hope to have another post on this topic in the future. There are two groups, but perhaps Pastor Russell had it right all along- this is what the Bible Students believe and I respect them and their sincerity very much.

    3. This is a lesson to me and to us all that we cannot be guided by men. They are fallible and they are flawed. 2 Timothy 3:16,17 and Hebrews 5:14 are key scriptures that have become very important to me lately.

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    • Dennis says:

      JJ said,
      “DO NOT partake of the emblems if you do not feel you have the heavenly hope.” …. “The scriptural proof is mounting in my mind that the Great Crowd is actually serving before Jehovah’s throne, which is of course in heaven.”

      NIV 1Cor. 10:16-17
      16 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf.

      Yes all who partake must profess a heavenly call. I can’t see it any other way. I believe (like JJ is coming to believe and as do others on this forum) that there is currently only one calling for a Christian in this age. This is the call to a heavenly existence in the presence of the King of King’s, our Lord Jesus Christ and his merciful Father (can you even imagine being in the physical presence of those two) and this call is not limited in number. I’ll go one further, that the 144,000 (many are called, few are chosen) are chosen from those who go to heaven to engage in the special work of the restoration of all things in the millennium, in the work of extending kingdom blessings to ALL mankind. These will rule as Kings and Priests with our Lord. ALL of mankind in general’s (those dead from Adam on and those who survive the turmoil of the great tribulation and Armageddon) hope is yet future and they will receive blessings in the millennium under kingdom rule in fulfillment of the promises to Abraham. Currently there is no special call to draw out of the nations a group of Gods people that will live on Earth forever (IMO, this was an invention of JF Rutherford in the 1930’s). This will be available to ALL who have ever lived when Gods kingdom rules over the Earth (those who have an interest in the Lord now but do not feel the call to heavenly life will have an easier time conforming to Gods righteous standards under kingdom rule). There is at this time only the “one hope” as mentioned by Paul. Mankind in general is not on trial at this time but will experience a time of trial and judgement under kingdom rule in favorable conditions after being brought up the highway of holiness by Christ and his bride. What a loving provision!

      For those that would like to explore than scriptural reasoning for these beliefs, I offer the following link.
      http://www.chicagobible.org/bo.....-ages.html

      In Christian Love,

      Dennis

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  13. greybeard says:

    Loving counsel? hahahahahahaha ROTFLMbO!

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  14. serein says:

    you should only partake if you are of the heavenly class thats it,jesus said do this in remeberence of me but he was saying it to his apostle, iv been asking questions similer to this on the bible students site,i feel i want to go heaven id rather be there, but its not up to me and as im not sure of everything yet im not going to partake of them,i want to live on earth to just to be alive would be a good start when the end comes,i duno why i want to go heaven i just know o feelm im not good enough so im not.

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    • Dennis says:

      Dear sister,

      There is no one righteous or good enough. It’s by God’s grace that we are reconciled to him so that we may not boast in ourselves. Even Paul felt inadequate and unworthy.

      Christian Love,
      Dennis

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  15. greybeard says:

    Good points Dennis,

    I have thought about meeting with the Bible Students. My wife is a JW and that makes it difficult. This is something I am praying about.

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    • Amos says:

      G.B.

      You will find much encouragement among the BS’s, if you meet with them. They are wonderful people who really do try to get the most out of the scriptures. You may need to exercise care & discernment because your wife is still a JW.

      Amos

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    • jacqueline says:

      greybeard,
      I was afraid at first, but if you plant the seed that these are our brothers, a mate accepts it better. My husband blew a head gasket at first but he settled down a little and my children. Sometimes it takes time.

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  16. Amos says:

    Sister Serene,

    Bro. Dennis has given you good advice in regard to your post….none of us can be good enough, righteous enough, to stand before the throne on our own merit, this is only possible through the ransom sacrifice, the free gift of grace, & our willingness to conform our lives into harmony with God’s requirements for His chosen, anointed human children.

    Because of my JW upbringing, it has taken me some time to realize many truths contained in scripture, & I’m still learning more each day, either confirming what I already know, modifying some of my views, or completely changing some other views.

    One of the most important things that I have come to realize in my studies is that we need to be flexible enough to allow the Holy Spirit to guide us into the truth when we are studying & meditating on God’s word.

    Can I encourage you to be patient in your studies & try not to look at too many different topics at any time, but concentrate on the ones that concern you the most. What I did was make a list of the topics that I wanted to check out, ticking the ones that I satisfied myself with & then adding others, as time went on. Until I did this, I was confusing myself, & was getting very frustrated & impatient with myself.

    WCL, Amos

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  17. Tyndale says:

    I partake privately at home, actually i have a meal with the family after the passover style eat matzah and drink kosher wine, nobody views it as the memorial, however i do it in memory of Christ, its a “love feast” type meal and hurts no ones conscience.

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  18. Reader says:

    Dear All the above;

    A scripture seldom used but everyone should take to heart esp when they hear/see anything new: Proverbs 20 v 25 an interesting observation on humans.

    The nearest example for the present situation is probably 1Samuel 16 v 14 and 1 Samuel 20 v 42 to 23 v 15 [+1Corinthians 10 v 11]

    “We are dwelling in a wilderness because ‘Saul’ is tormented by Jehovah.”

    As for non-partaking let me point out a possibility:
    Has Jehovah allowed this for a reason? Notice the case of the Gibeonites Joshua 9 were allowed to trick Israel God did not expose them.
    B

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  19. AJ says:

    Brothers and Sisters our heavenly Fathers arrangement for Jesus and his sons and daughters [kingdom heirs] will take place exactly as God has planned,as you continue to learn by means of the most precious gift that Gods son said he would send us is his Fathers Holy spirit of understanding. Do not worry about the heirs to the Kingdom of God,the spiritual temple will be complete by the time Jesus comes to establish that kingdom here on earth as He continues to fulfill the prophesy of revelations.May all of you brothers and sisters continue encourgeing one another as YHWH and his Son has shown you their love to all of you in your efforts to serve the kingdom that will never be brought to ruin ever again.Spiritual love to all of you-EPH,1:15-18

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