Since composing the following paper, I am considering the posibility that during the next age, all the “anointed” may be in the flesh & on earth. Following the millenniual age, it may then be possible that we could be taken to heaven. This is a topic in it’s own right, for a separate discussion.


                             Who are the Ancient Worthies (AW’s)?

These are the faithful men & women of the OT times. There are examples of them listed for us in Hebrews chapter 11.

The common belief as to their destiny is that they will receive a favoured position on earth during the millennial age. Is this so?

Using Hebrews chapter 11 as the basis for this discussion, let’s proceed.

Father Abraham is the prime source of reference from Vs 8 – 10.

8, “By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would afterward receive as an inheritance (for his fleshly descendants). And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9, By faith he sojourned in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10, for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder & maker is God.”

If we now go to V’s 13 – 16, this tells us what land they looked at for as their hope.

13, “These all died in faith, (all the AW’s) not having received the promises (even though most of them lived in the promised land on earth), but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them, and confessed that they WERE STRANGERS (#3581 “xenos” aliens/guests) AND PILGRIMS (#3927 “parepidemos” a resident foreigner) ON THE EARTH. 14, For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15, And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, (Ur of Chaldea) they would have had opportunity to return (but did not). 16, But now they desire a better, that is, A HEAVENLY COUNTRY (#2032 “epicranius,“ above the sky, celestial, (in) heaven), Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them ( a heavenly city),

If we now go to Vs 39, 40,

V 39, “And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, (even though most of them lived in the promised land, Israel)V 40, God having provided something better for us (those from the apostles time onward), that they should not be made perfect APART FROM US.” (not separate to)

The Greek word used here for “apart” is “choris”, when translated is, “separately or apart from, beside, by itself, without”. This indicates that these faithful ones of old (AW’s) would receive their inheritence, “not without” but  WITH the Gospel Age church.

It is also interesting to note the new AENT translation, renders verse 11 as follows; “because Elohim had provided the aid for us so that WITHOUT US  they should not be perfected.”

This clearly shows that the Gospel Age church are actually added to, & perfected with, the faithful pre-Christians, beginning with Abel, & ending with John the baptizer.

Some of these ancients who were “called by God” include, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Ruth, Jonah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, all the prophets & all the bible writers, to name a just a few.


Conclusions; It would appear that while the promised land, Israel, was to be given to the “Nation of Israel,” that some chosen ones “from this nation, plus some others,” those who were outstanding in their faith & worship of YHWH, would receive a better resurrection, one to heavenly life.

This can be borne out by the references to “the city prepared for them” by God, along with the statement by Paul in V 16, “But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country.” As the AENT puts it; “But now it is manifest that they longed for a better (city) than that, (namely) for that which is in heaven. Therefore Elohim did not refuse to be called their Elohim; for He prepared for them the city.”

Concluding in V 40, by implying they, the AW’s, would receive their “better resurrection,” ALONG WITH the Gospel Age christian church.

The point being made is that the Ancient Worthies AND the Church, will have the same privileged position & destiny TOGETHER.

There are some scriptural indicators, that this will be on the earth for the duration of the millennium.

The often used verse in Psalm 45:16, does not in any way prove that these ones have a different destiny to the church when it is analized thoroughly. Princes are sons of the KING, waiting for their CROWNS & KINGDOM, this is their inheritance. When they receive their inheritence, they then ALSO will become KINGS.



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17 Comments on The Ancient Worthies-Their Destiny

  1. rus virgil says:

    Amos, I have to take my position/stand regarding yours two last articles on this forum : regarding AW and regarding God’s Kingdom where ?
    I will not use many words
    I will point to the basis you used to build upon in these two artcles/studies
    here are your words used in other forum :
    “Using Hebrews chapter 11 as the basis for this discussion, let’s proceed.”

    The truth is GOD is a God of “order” / He establishes the order to be followed
    He has the right to set a “basis”
    and He certainly did it :
    ““This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
    Listen to him!”
    HERE is the basis.
    Further more we have the (inspired) testimony of one who was personally with Jesus and also heard the voice on the Mountain: John
    2John 9. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God;
    whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

    Are we able to recognise the “foundation” ? — Christ , and His teaching !

    Not only a man, but even a certain “teaching” or “Biblical subject” may be “remaining in the teaching of Christ” or may be “ahead” of it !
    If it is not “in” , then that teaching is not from God , or from God’s Spirit !

    So, Amos , if you want your subject to be “in” the teaching of Christ, you (and any other person) should build his research on the “basis” settled by Father, who is Jesus and His teaching !
    Well , I am not alone in giving this advice/warning
    it was done first by Peter
    “15 …..our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.
    16. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

    So, Paul wrote his epistles according to the wisdom God gave him.
    And certainly what Paul wrote was not “ahead” or beyond of what Jesus taught.

    As conclusion, we have to understand that the meaning of Paul’s words are surely “remaining in the teaching of Christ”
    so, we have to seek for that meaning .

    with love
    in Christ
    rus v.


    • Amos says:

      Bro. Rus,
      I quite agree with what you have said about “remaining in the teaching of Christ”. This is the very reason that I have opened up these two articles for discussion.
      Until now, all we have been doing is blindly accepting what tradition from man has handed down to us. You may not be aware of it, but the Roman church can in fact trace itself to the first century, when Simon the sorceror wanted to pay for the “gifts of the Spirit”. when he was refused this, he went off & began his own false religion, a blend of christianity & Babylonian occultish teachings. A few years later he moved to Rome & set up, what is commonly called “the early church fathers”, he possibly being the first. We need to get rid of ANY falsehood that has come from ANY belief system that can be traced to falsehood. This is my goal, to compare scripture with scripture & find what really is the truth from the Bible, as far as we can ascertain. It is not my interpretaions that matter, it’s what the Bible itself interprets to us.

      Nowhere have I said that this “is truth”…what I have said is that it should start discussion, so we, “the body of Christ”, can arrive at the truth “without the tradtions of men”. This is how the Holy Spirit operates, when we collectively research a topic, IT will guide us into all truth, & this is not saying that we will “know all truth” but that what we do know, “will be ALL truth”.

      In christian love to all,



    • Anonymous says:

      Bro. Rus,

      If you didn’t agree with Bro. Amos’ article in whole or in part, why didn’t you offer a rebuttal stating chapter and verse, for support of your position? Instead you offer advice/warning about running ahead of the teachings of Christ. Rather than dealing with the substance of his article you want to deal with the messenger. This is typical of so many in religion today and very typical of “The Society”. IMO your advice/warning was misplaced, as the brother was not putting forth what he believed was doctrine or absolute truth, rather, he was opening up a discussion (based upon research he has done) on a subject of interest to himself and maybe others. No different from what brothers often do at conventions, social events, etc. Biblical interpretation is just that, interpretation and through discussion and peer review it can be refined or discredited.

      You said,”Not only a man, but even a certain “teaching” or “biblical subject” may be “remaining in the teaching of Christ” or may be “ahead” of it !” It is only your opinion that just the consideration of various biblical subjects is not remaining in the teaching’s of Christ. Thank God that this opinion was not shared by many who’ve went before us or who knows what kind of error we would have (Note: None of us has the absolute truth). Thank God for Pastor Russell and others who didn’t believe the consideration of different biblical subjects was running ahead of Christ (this is however, what their detractors thought of them)!

      So rather than offer advice not to run ahead of the foundation laid in Christ (I don’t think this brother has done that), why don’t you enter the discussion and bring your supporting evidence.

      In Christian Love,



  2. FutureMan says:

    Hi there Amos, to some extent I do agree with Rus virgil, on this issue of where the ancient of Worthies will be resurrected to, heaven or earth.

    But I can understand where you are coming from.

    The problem is that Jesus has promised this reward of Heavenly life only to those who comprise the body of Christ, that is as we understand today those who make up the bride of Christ, the 144,000 spiritual virgins, mentioned in Revelation.

    None of these ancient of worthies fit this criteria for those who are to be part of the bride of Christ as they did not even know the son of God or were baptized into his name, neither were they baptized with the Holy Spirit.

    However as God indicated to Daniel, they will receieve a reward appropriate for their faithfulness and service to Jah.

    As you mentioned the the Heavenly city (Jerusalem) where they will be entering after their resurrection.

    Interesting however that the the book of Revelation describes this city as coming down out of heaven down to the earth as a bride.

    Revelation 21 [LITV]
    1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and the sea no longer is.
    2 And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of Heaven from God, having been prepared as a bride, having been adorned for her Husband.

    So yes ones like Abraham and Daniel, Moses, Abel and so on no doubt will have the privileged to serve as princes or governors or administrators in this symbolic city of New Jerusalem that will come down to the earth.


  3. Amos says:

    Brother Russ,

    I’m still waiting for your reply, to show why I have gone ahead of the Lord’s teachings, & to show what you own views on this subject are.



  4. rus virgil says:

    I’m sorry Amos, I wasn’t following this thread from the day I commented (first) here / and just now I observed your call
    as now is “morning” here in romania, and any answer takes much of my time , now I will be shorter.
    for the next discussion here I want to set as a “background” one older post that you (Amos) know ; then, we (and I ) will go further
    please consider or re-consider the emphasis I did in this post.

    there will be several points to be discussed .
    with consideration for my Brothers,
    rus virgil


  5. rus virgil says:

    A few points this time :
    1) Amos says :
    “God calls those whom He chooses for His Kingdom, to reign with His son.
    Where do they reign with Y’shua, in Heaven or on Earth?

    As this is a question that each one must answer for themselves”
    Jesus answers :
    — He called the Kingdom of God and also “of Heaven” – that means this Kingdom is and will be “of” Heaven, its place and residence is there (unchangeable)
    — He says: John 14:2,3 …”that where I am, there ye may be also.”
    and John 17:24 …”Father, I desire that they also whom thou hast given me be with me where I am,”
    where is Jesus after resurrection ?
    John 8:14 ..” My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going;
    John 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    Jesus statement tells us that those who will reign with Jesus will be where Jesus is – in Heaven
    I believe that , because that is “the teaching of Christ”

    the words in Revelation are “prophetic” that is, in “symbol” , and their meaning by no means can change “the teaching” Jesus taught when He was on earth.

    In Rev. appear two expressions which may produce confusion
    – And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
    – “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
    These two declarations have a “spiritual” meaning which is in accord with Jesus teaching
    in a few words, there are two important things related to the Kingdom : the “power/authority” and “righteousness”
    so, the declarations from Revelations 21 have to do with “Kingdom’s power or authority” extended over earth (and its inhabitants)
    and with the “status” of “righteousness” being extended from Heaven over earthly subjects of the Kingdom
    (I can’t explain it better in english )

    2) Regarding AW :
    “The point being made is that the Ancient Worthies AND the Church, will have the same privileged position & destiny TOGETHER.”
    The conclusion of Amos is based upon Paul’s words and NOT upon Jesus words
    Paul’s words are in Hebrew 11
    10. for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

    16. But as it is, they desire a better country,
    >> that is, a heavenly one
    Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

    Jesus never taught about “earthly Kingdom”, but about “God’s Kingdom” and “of Heaven”
    only one Kingdom
    and God’s will is that this one (Heavenly) Kingdom will “come” on earth ,
    the Kingdom is not an “object” which may leave Heaven and depart from there in order to be on earth
    God’s Kingdom means God’s order or arrangement(having the major characteristic “righteousness” ) which dwells in Heaven (first) and at a certain time this arrangement will be extended over earth, so the earth (and its inhabitants) will be /will be comprised in that arrangement (of righteousness )
    NEVER God’s Kingdom will leave the Heavens in order to move somewhere else , BUT from Heaven it will be extended all over God’s creation
    this “way” , God’s “heavenly City” will be also for the earth’s inhabitants , of whom , the AW are (I think)the most worthy ones !

    This “operation” God is making through Jesus :
    Ephesians 1
    9. He [God] made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him [Jesus]

    10. with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times,
    >> that is, the summing up of all things in Christ,
    >> things in the heavens and things on the earth.

    So, the “things in the heavens” (including “heavenly bodies” )
    and the “things on the earth” (including the “earthly bodies”
    are to be “summed up” “in Christ” , in His Kingdom !

    So only one Kingdom, of God and of Heaven both in Heaven and on earth !

    rus virgil


    • rus virgil says:

      Another statement of Jesus
      Matthew 11
      11. “Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist!
      >> Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

      Do you believe that Amos ?

      rus virgil


  6. Amos says:

    I don’t have time at present, so will come back to you shortly & give you a reply.
    The first point that I’ll make now, is that when the texts refer to the “kingdom of heaven”, in no way demands that the “kingdom is IN heaven”, BUT that it “proceeds FROM heaven”, “from the throne of GOD”.

    Matt.11:11 is a discussion of it’s own, & should not be used to sidetrack the current topic. I will address this at a later time.



  7. Amos says:

    Rus, I’ll ask you to explain your thoughts as to where Y’shua will be when HE returns, in heaven or on the earth, as if He is still in heaven, then it means He has not “returned”.
    Please explain with scriptures what you believe about this.



    • rus virgil says:

      Hello Amos
      I don’t find in Bible that there is any requirement from God for us to know where Jesus will be (with his spiritual/invisible body) at a certain time .
      We are required to be “worshipers with ..spirit”
      I know and I believe that Christ is at the “right side of Father” for ever (Hebrews 10:12/ 1Peter 3:22 ) – and that is enough for me !

      regarding the “seeing” God, I read this:
      John 14:
      8. Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

      9. Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
      >> Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
      I see clear , that perceiving what the personality of the Son is, his character , and the teaching he taught means “to see” the Father
      Why ? … because ..
      15. The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Colossians 1.
      3. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being,… .Hebrews 1.

      Knowing that, we can understand that Jesus “coming on the clouds” is not “literal”

      Again we read:
      19. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. John 14.
      So, there is no hope that “the world” will see him anymore !
      Only the faithful ones have such hope:
      2. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known.
      >> But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3.

      Is very clear who will see Him : only those who will be “like him” !
      regarding the Christians who will remain on earth (the great crowd/multitude), they has no such promising / they will see him only by perceiving His works on earth

      Here I wrote a few words regarding Jesus “coming”
      my above post is incomplete because there is a very important moment of His “coming” and in fact the last “action” of Jesus which will complete His second “coming” (I did not write it there but I do it here)
      it’s about the completation of “Christ’s Body” made through the resurrection of those “dead in Christ” and the changing of those being alive at that moment
      51. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
      52. in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.
      >>For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 1 Corinthians 15

      What I expect here is that as when Jesus was “ascended” (at the 40th day) there were many eye witness from those who believed in Him,
      the same will be at the future glorious moment when those who belong to Christ will be “changed”
      I understand that this act would be necessary for those who will remain on earth in order that their faith to be strengthened .

      Serein, I hope you also may understand what I say here (in my post)

      rus virgil


  8. serein says:

    1 Thessalonians 1
    1 Paul, Silas[a] and Timothy,

    To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ:

    Grace and peace to you.

    Thanksgiving for the Thessalonians’ Faith
    2 We always thank God for all of you and continually mention you in our prayers. 3 We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.
    4 For we know, brothers and sisters[b] loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. 6 You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. 7 And so you became a model to all the believers in Macedonia and Achaia. 8 The Lord’s message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia—your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore we do not need to say anything about it, 9 for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

    i did notice here that it says in 10 and to wait for his son from heaven, so would that also imply that hes coming out of heaven to us,just a thought as i was just reading this,or does it imply wait for his son whol be in heaven as hes from there and hel rescue us wile still in heaven, befor i became a jw i used to think that we would visable see jesus again coming with his angels from heaven on the cloads and every eye will see him i always thought it ment exactly that and not invisable cos how can every eye see him if hes invisable, i mean even if somthing terrible happens in the world if jesus is invisable no one who dosnt beleive in him is going to beleive its becose of him that its happening, i think every one will see him so that they will finaly beleive and then there will be gnashing of teeth as every one will deff no hes actualy real and it was all true.then the end will come of this sistem and a new sistem with jesuses rule will begin, i think he will come hel perform some miracles get his goverment of kings together whos gona help us on the earth and then sort everything else out and then go back to heaven and give the kingdom back to jehovah after.but u know thats just my opinion, in the end i think it dosnt realy matter wether we know wether hes ruling on earth or heaven we should just be glad that its gona happen either way and hope we are apart of it and follow his example the best we can everyday im not going to worry realy about anything anymore about what the scriptures realy say on this as i dont think it realy matters in the big picture,he just wants us to not argue about it and love one another and try our best to be faithfull people i still ask questions i still look things up but mot os i want to know exactly the whole truths on everything but just cos im interested on others thoughts but not cos i want to be right on everything only right in myself as a person and with god, he dosnt care wether we think hes gona be in heaven or earth now he just wants the message taught that he came he died for our sins hes coming back and to ove one another and teach others the same thats it.


  9. serein says:

    sorry about spellings and missing letters i cant corect it,


  10. Amos says:

    Hi Serein,
    It looks as though you are putting things together, & this is very important that we do our own study, so we can understand it for ourselves, & not just blindly accept what others say. “Seek & ye shall find, knock & the door will be opened”.

    I have much to say about this topic & also “God’s Kingdom – in Heaven or on Earth”. However too much information at once can be confusing & overwhelming to some. I am continually learning new things, as well as having old views either confirmed or modified.

    My sole intention, is to share what I have come across with others, so we can discuss it together. Each one will then need to decide for themselves, whether it is correct or not.



  11. Amos says:


    I will say the following with regard to your post #5.

    1) Because God’sKingdom is, of or from heaven, doesn’t mean that it will never be on earth….that is the part of it that God has prepared for the earth WILL be ON the earth.

    Matt.6:9; “After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth.” ASV
    Pleae note a most important sequence that very few translations get correct; “with God, ALL things begin in heaven!” You will notice that firstly, God’s Kingdom is “done in Heaven” & that following this, “it WILL be done on earth”.
    ALL good things proceed from our Father in Heaven, not the other way around. As an example look at the creation account in Genesis, it will show that ALL things began in heaven, then flowed onto the earth.

    So my question to you is this; “Did our Lord make a mistake when He said, “Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth?””
    If God’s Kingdom proceeds “FROM Heaven to be ON the earth”, how clearer can it be? This is why it can be said that there is both a heavenly AND an earthly phase to God’s Kingdom.

    So how would you explain the meaning of the verse in Matt.22:44?
    The quetion is, “Where will the Lord (Y’shua/Jesus) sit once God has…”PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET?”

    This is why I asked you this question before, “Rus, I’ll ask you to explain your thoughts as to where Y’shua will be when HE returns, in heaven or on the earth, as if He is still in heaven, then it means He has not “returned”.

    When you satisfactorily answer this question, I’ll proceed with your further statements.



    • rus virgil says:

      Oh, Amos
      the answer to this question I gave already a year before and you have read it already !
      Father said those words to His Son when He got ascended and enthroned (before pentecosta) and from that time on He remains at “the right hand of the Father”…. and He will still be there when the Father will put His enemies beneath His feet.
      This indicate a “spiritual position” and there is no indication in Bible where He will be /phisically or with his body/ at certain times.

      I understand that there are things given and things kept secret by Father (in His word); and we are to keep and believe those given…Deuteronomus 29:29.

      rus virgil


      • Amos says:

        Hi Rus,

        So I gather what you are saying is that our Lord will not return to the earth, is that right?

        Why can’t you give a straight reply?

        The other thing is this….if Christ does not return (as He promised He would), this then makes both The Father & the Son, liars, & we khow that this is not the case at all, THEY NEVER LIE.

        There are many things that are hidden from our view in the scriptures, BUT this is not one of them.



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